Wednesday, May 09, 2007

The Man Behind The Curtain - Episode Discussion

194 comments:

trevor mcfur said...

cool, first post!

PalmerEldritch said...

first is the worst.

second is the best.

i'll warn the next poster ahead of time that "third is the one with the hairiest chest."

Ralph- said...

how fitting

PalmerEldritch said...

heheheheheheh. nice.

hey, is this the potentially spoiler filled thread that i should be avoiding like the plague?

if so, let's go kablamo the hell out of the last thread whilst we wait for LOST.

morgan said...

Jeeze, 4 hours left! This is the episode I've been waiting for all season. And the crappy thing is I can't come back here after 7.

memphish said...

Jimmy, Jordan and the rest of you Coasters, I have to stick up for the middle of the country. We're not all a bunch of Nascar loving/George Bush is the Man/Shut up and sing Dixie Chicks fans, even if I am the anti-hippie because I voted for Ronald Reagan. If any of the rest of you had been in old enough to vote '84 you would have too unless you lived in Minnesota. Look it up if you don't know what that means.

Of course, I did live in California for 9 years. Maybe your coast theory holds water.

We traveled in Italy a couple of years ago and no one there gave a rats ass about US Politics as long as you had Euros. I'd highly recommend it, especially over France which is beautiful and nice, but the Italians fawn over tourists and I love fawning.

Holli

P.S. Palmer I did hear something about a show named LOST on AOTS. They said get over it. (But I'm not listening to them.) Amazingly in the local paper a syndicated TV guy was raving about how good LOST has gotten lately. Whitney at Pop Candy has too. So not all the media sucks. (That's not a blue state attitude either.)

apPaullo said...

KABLAMO!

apPaullo said...

Shit. Too early this time...

apPaullo said...

I hope everyone likes my Ronald McDonald 'do, circa age 3.

Colin said...

I live in Minnesota! But I wasn't old enough to vote in '84. I just thought I'd add that to the conversation, Holli.

Lost Boys said...

Hello All I'm New To The Blog Spot So Yeah Just wanted to drop in and say hello Tell everyone about my new lost podcast I've done with my friends its called the lost boys podcast we're new to the podcasting game but we curse like sailors and if you listen to Kim and Aimme you or the Dharmalars you must be used to that so yeah check us out in I Tunes search for either Kris Carlson (cause i'm to stupid to put the name of my podcast instead put my real name) or search Lost boys podcast.

Hopefully I'll become an active member of the blogspot But I am REALLY stupid when it comes to computers(Just Like Locke)

apPaullo said...

I wonder if Ben's DHARMA whiskey is 108 proof?

Kirklain said...

wow... just watched the show twice (only great thing about canadian tv!)... anyway, no spoilers as you could be watching now or in a couple of hours if on the west coast!

but man oh man you're in for a treat! Jacob is the man, or is he?!!!

Thorley Winston said...

Whoa, totally called it about what Jack told Juliet they shouldn’t tell Kate about yet.

Juliet's still my #1 "M" or at least a "B."

memphish said...

With 20 minutes to go I hate Jack! What a tool! And how would Juliet know that about the tape since Locke gave it to Sawyer?

Holli

trevor mcfur said...

HOLY BLURKING SHNIT!

Ally said...

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!

Thorley Winston said...

OMG now that was a cliffhanger! So whatdaya think, does he survive or reappear Obi Wan Kenobi style?

PalmerEldritch said...

huh.

trevor mcfur said...

What the hell was Jacob? Was that Ben's split personality? Or was someone else actually there for a second? Need screencaps!

Colin said...

Holy shit. That's all I have to say.

Holli, how can you hate Jack? He totally redeemed himself in my eyes and, say what you will, he did only what he thought was right.

That Jacob stuff was really crazy.

Starline said...

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!
What the heck did I just watch?!

Island/Jacob/Smokey needs to heal Locke, for reals.

PalmerEldritch said...

well, the first half was badass. the second half was kind of strange. enjoyable but weird. Dr. Eyeliner freaked me the fuck out in the woods there. and Locke was the man beating the shit out of Patchy.

the Jacob thing was kind of weird though. and i really hope our boy Locke hasn't yet drawn his last breath.

but yeah... Dr. Eyeliner knew BabyBen. that was mind-blowing.

Colin said...

Are Jacob and Smokey one and the same? That'd be incredibly sweet. I actually was thinking about that right up to the meeting with him.

My prediction is that Locke takes over as leader of the Others, after Jacob heals him and they get rid of Ben.

So, what, Batmanuel doesn't age?

PalmerEldritch said...

Holli, I imagine that Ben told Juliet ahead of time that his instructions would be on the tape for her to go back and grab.

I really hope someone kills Ben. Soon. Messily.

PalmerEldritch said...

colin, maybe Dr. Eyeliner is really healthy? good ol' JizzIsland Mojo, fools.

either that or the Island is the remnants of Numenor and Batmanuel is a long-lived Dunedain.

/NEEEEERDS!!

Colin said...

Haha. Am I a nerd cause I understood your reference, Palmer?

Colin said...

Is it not strange that the "natives" (that's what Dharma called the Hostiles) are a group of (mostly) caucasian people who speak English on an island in the South Pacific? There's some crazy shit going on. Richard just got a hell of a lot more interesting. Why is Ben the leader, not him?

trevor mcfur said...

Never thought I'd say this, but now I want an Eyeliner flashback.

PalmerEldritch said...

referencing obscure Tolkien is like the Nerd version of code words. while a spy would say "The falcon flies at midnight" and wait for a response, we can say some crap like "I'm looking for a Silmaril."

if the person can tell you that there are three, you know you're talking to one of your own.

PalmerEldritch said...

yeah, i was wondering that about the natives. interesting that Batmanuel was a hippy back in the day and then clean cut when pop culture was more clean cut.

do we know yet what "the incident" was?

is Alpert some kind of descendant of the ancient people who made the ToeStatue?

trevor mcfur said...

And that they were created by Feanor.

Maybe the natives don't age ... I mean, Alpert looked the same, except for a shave and a haircut, when he met Ben like, 30 years ago. Maybe they made the 4-toe statue.

Do we think that was the DeGroots in the car at the beginning?

PalmerEldritch said...

what i meant to imply with the different looks of Alpert was that maybe the dude has been infiltrating society and scouting around for a while now (not just for Ben).

or did he kill the Dharmations and steal their sub so he could do that?

memphish said...

Now I'm sorry you man-crush Jack lovers, but apparently all Jack knows at this point is that Juliet knows that Sun is pregnant which he already knew and he alone decided to pump her for . . . information? regarding how best to deal with the pregnant woman swiping raid.

Jack's plans always suck! How'd the last one work for you Dr. Coconut Head? You wound up in a shark tank watching your girl sex it up in bear cage with a redneck? Great plan! You probably shouldn't consult anyone but the enemy on this one either.

Holli

Anonymous said...

whoa...total WTF episode. i don't even know if my brain has finished processing it yet...

april

memphish said...

I'm also glad to see that Alpert's eyeliner is multi-genreational. Damn I want me some of that.

Holli

Anonymous said...

...but i do agree with holli...

april

MB said...

Okay - I'm doing everything in my power to NOT look at any of the posts here yet (Covers eyes)>.,cm ,

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Ok that's not going to work

Seriously just two things I had to get out.

1. whoever is still coming up with MB names - just wanted you to know that it gives me a good laugh each day - thanks

2. PALMER - DUDE, NI-HICE K-9!! I think you've inspired me to change my pic (I'm such a f-ing copy-cat)

memphish said...

Process, schmoss April. Just fire away!

I'm not quite as stunned as I was this time last year with the Two for the Road ending. I couldn't sleep at all that night.

I want to ask MB, Morgan, Mac, whoever that bastard is that does the spoilers if he had any idea.

Holli

Colin said...

Holli, you still regard Juliet as "the enemy"? I don't. Of course, I was wrong about her the first time.

It's true that Jack's plans always suck, but at least he attempts to do something. Last I checked, Sayid wasn't too hot at making plans. I remember the lostaways having a sailboat at some point....what ever happened to that boat?

Anonymous said...

so just because she told them that the others were coming after the pregnant women, she's no longer the enemy? she's playing both sides, you can't trust that!

april

Colin said...

Speaking as someone who has seen essentially every spoiler, I can say I had absolutely no idea about anything in this episode, from Jacob to Locke being shot. All I knew was that we were going to be "introduced" to Jacob.

stephsmith said...

I have no idea what to say.
The couple who picked up Michael Emerson's wife and the uncle from Napolean Dynomite was the ass-hole prison guard from The Green Mile and Samantha Mathis who was in that movie with River Pheonix about trying to make it in Nashville. What was that stuff Locke smelt of? What the hell happened in the cabin? I liked it. I would have been disappointed with anything else. How could Locke help Jacob? Will Locke heal? I thought Ben and Roger were going to have an accident and Ben was going to heal or come back to life or something. That is so funny, I just asked last night where the whispers went. So, that's what the purge was. Was Ben's mom the smoke monster? I say yes. Who the hell is Annie? I don't guess it matters now. Looks like the hostiles or Richard doesn't age.
Jordan, you would know better than me what Europeans think. And yeah, I agree. Most Americans worry more about tv shows and such rather than what their representatives are doing with their money or what's going on in the world. I was appalled the other day when a nurse at work didn't know who Barack Obama was. What the hell does she pay attention to?
Paul, "I wanna fall from the stars straight into your arms" Very cute.

PalmerEldritch said...

Ben's an evil and creepy little bastard. I hope Vincent pees on his corpse.

Colin said...

April, I know that she's playing both sides. But she did come clean to Jack, and that was before anyone knew about Naomi (other than Desmond and the lot).

PalmerEldritch said...

it does sort of piss me off that Jack doesn't seem to have had any sort of plan before Juliet told him "uh, jack, i'm a plant."

stephsmith said...

What is there to decide, Jack? You keep the Others from grabbing the preggos.

PalmerEldritch said...

steph, you could get rid of any annoying people by sneaking X marks onto their tents!

memphish said...

See Colin, the man-crush must end. I'm totally just kidding. I really want to like Jack. Hell I'm married to a version of him without the alcoholic father. His mother's the alcoholic, but that's another story and if you say I said it I'll deny it all. Really!

Holli

Colin said...

Lets put an X on Kate's tent. And just a random guy, to throw the hostiles off the scent.

PalmerEldritch said...

Frogurt's tent.

trevor mcfur said...

So not too long ago, people were trying to figure out who Jacob is... OK, who said, 'Crazy invisible guy in a rocking chair?'

PalmerEldritch said...

trevor, i think it's important to note that Jacob is militantly Amish.

PalmerEldritch said...

should i apologize to any Amish posting on the blogspot? :p

Colin said...

Okay. Man-crush is done. I'm pretty sure I'm the only human being alive who likes Jack at this point.

memphish said...

I guess if Jacob is Amish that explains the horses on the Island.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

holli, it would also explain the finely made rocking chair.

Colin said...

Jacob, ladies and gentlemen.

Anonymous said...

awesome, thanks colin, i was wondering about that. so which producer is it? :o)

april

Colin said...

Wait, didn't Cuselof say something about Damon's voice being in an upcoming episode? Could Jacob's voice be Damon? Cause I'm pretty sure they HAVE to credit any actors with speaking roles on a press release, and there was no credit for the voice of Jacob.

Am I over thinking this?

PalmerEldritch said...

Carlton. :)

hey, so, my theory that probably 8000 other people have already posted somewhere on the interwebs...

Ben could see his mumsy. Tricky Dick Alpert thought that this meant that Ben was special. Eventually, he brings Ben to Jacob in the hopes that finally someone can communicate with Jacob. Ben lies and says that he can and controls the Others. Now, he finds in Locke someone who actually can communicate with Jacob and freaks.

memphish said...

That is NOT Billy Dee Williams.

Damn!

Holli

Anonymous said...

no, colin...you're right. they said that. i was thinking the same thing about it being damon's voice

april

Colin said...

It's Bai Ling.

PalmerEldritch said...

if not Billy Dee, then maybe Peter Mayhew?

memphish said...

Palmer, I'm thinking the same thing re Ben. After all, Dharma was probably teaching those kids telekinesis and weather manipulation. Seems pretty good when you can't even get a haircut. And where was that Salon Hatch that Alpert went to pre-gassing?

If killing your dad is good, why isn't Kate on the list?

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

colin, with that one suggestion, you made several people across the internet throw up a little in their mouths.

tommytheduck said...

The Jacob thing reminded me of "Them" by King Diamond. Very strange... Why did he say "help me?" First thing that popped into my mind was "The Fly" Perhaps Jacob is tiny...

Colin said...

I'm glad to do it.

Starline said...

Also,
Little Ben = Harry Potter.

Anonymous said...

holli, maybe because kate's unresolved issue isn't with her dad, it's with her mom?
just a guess.

april

PalmerEldritch said...

april, awesome point about unresolved issues.

also, Ben killed his dad to join the Hostiles and then tells Locke to kill his dad to join the Others.

colin, you do realize that you said "I'm glad to do it" on post 69. you dog, you.

PalmerEldritch said...

g'night, internetica! and welcome, men of the West.

i'll leave you with my previous theory:
Dr. Eyeliner = Dunedain :)

Colin said...

Belated KABLAMO.

I think it's only right that the 69th post has to do with Bai Ling.

I think I made some more people throw up, Palmer.

memphish said...

Some people at Sledgeweb are saying Jacob looks like Terry O'Quinn. Which makes Locke Luke Skywalker?

Holli

Malcolm said...

holy mother fucking shit eating donky punching shit!!! locke is dead. until mid season 4, when he comes back as locke the white. or may be he was wearing bullet proof breasts?

memphish said...

Malcolm, So far you win the thread with the bullet proof breasts call-back.

Holli

Robert said...

I slow motioned the image of Jacob a zillion times and even zoomed the image but I do not recognize the person. What a strange and, for me, an unsatisfying episode. No way Locke will die. I am the only other person to still like Jack.

memphish said...

Robert, you and Colin can like Jack together. I want to hear what Kim thinks of him now. I think Juliet was forced to tell Jack that Ben has her finding pregnant women because he noticed Juliet and Sun returning to camp that Saturday morning.

Even if Jack is ultimately trying to help the LOSTies, why not let them help themselves? Is he wanting them to Live Together while he Lives or Dies Alone? Knowing Jack, that might be the case that he's planning some great sacrificial act, but the last time he did that, carrying Kate in the field, again, not such a great plan.

Holli

Robert said...

Holli, who the hell else is capable of leading these people? Sayid? Great plan at the dock and remember what army he fought for, not exactly military geniuses. Locke cares only about himself at this point and Desmond, who is one of my favorite characters, cares only about finding Penny. Does anyone else feel that this show is getting too weird?

Robert said...

I believe it was the guys from the Black Rock Podcast and maybe others who said that Ben is starting to lose it. They seem to be correct. When Ben was shouting for help when Locke was beating the shit out of Patchy, Tom and Richard basically ignored him. Locke IS special in some way and can't possibly die. It sure pissed Ben off that Locke heard Jacob.

casey_donahue said...

locke isnt dead

thats the end of that

memphish said...

Great drive-by post Casey.

Robert, good point about the lack of other leaders. And I forgot, Jack's plan to get Kate and Sawyer free actually did work even without him knowing about the 2 island problem.

I still don't trust Juliet. But then I hate her. I shouted it at the TV multiple times.

And why would Jack not trust Sayid? Sayid helped with the Michael plan (okay, that's strike 1) and the torture Sawyer plan (actually that's strike 1), but he did come and "rescue" Jack from the Others which resulted in the sub being blown up.

Never mind. I answered my own question, but if you're saving people's lives they should be allowed to know about it. And I hate Juliet. Did I mention that?

Holli

Brooklyn said...

Holy Shiza!!! WOW. What a friggin' episode!!! Ben's creepy flashback, the even creepier "Jacob" moment, and LOCKE!!! Oh, man... This show is great!

I'm an all balls to the walls Jack fan, but I've gotta be with Holli here. Jack's a dofus now, and he needs to stop being retarded. And I need to stop being four years old, apparently.

Juliet's a whore.

Brooklyn said...

Oh, and how is Eyeliner the same age still??!! Yeah, there's a WTF mang moment...

Kimberley in T-dot said...

HOLY SHIT! WHAT A FUCKIN' AMAZING EPISODE!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! DID YOU SEE THAT???

casey_donahue said...

batmanuel doesnt age

Brooklyn said...

I knew "Suddenly Susan" would give him powers one day...

Brooklyn said...

Um, so Kim? Did you like the episode?

Kimberley in T-dot said...

Steph--you're thinking of "The Thing Called Love". I loved that movie, I should say I loved River Phoenix and that's why I loved that movie.

I am sooooo worked up over this episode. Ben did look like Harry Potter. Why didn't Alpert age? Was he supposed to be yonger, but they didn't pull it off???

Kimberley in T-dot said...

Brooklyn...it was ok, nothing to write home about :P

Ya! I like it...a LOT!

Ralph- said...

Westsiiiiiiiiiiiide!

Good episode. A lot to process. We did see a figure sitting in the chair for one quick pan.

Sort of looked like Marv from Sin City.

Now i will go back and see what all you Eastcoasters had to say...

morgan said...

Maybe Jacob said "help me" because that line of gray powder Locke was smelling is trapping him. Like a salt ring or whatever to keep spirits away?

I was bummed at first that Jacob was invisible or non-existent...then I thought, "Oh wow, Jacob is like Dave." But when he spoke and Locke saw that figure...it gave me the creeps. So maybe the Dave episode is more important than we thought?

I don't know, I'm still processing everything...total mindfuck.

Kimberley in T-dot said...

Ralph, there is a pic of Jacob--but I'm sure you saw it by now, it was already in posted in this thread

Ralph- said...

i am glad that the Giacchino revisited his theme that sounds like "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" by Genesis.

So, if the dharma initiative was killed off by the hostiles, was that Film in Room 23 made by Ben and the gang, just for Carl?

Is Patch a hostile, or is he really a hold over from Dharma? Why do Ben and the Gang still feel the need to dress the way they do when they wander the jungle? they have clothes, who are they trying to fool, if they themselves are the hostiles?

What the fuck is up with this show?

weird.

Anonymous said...

Colin and Robert,

You aren't the only ones that still like Jack. He's my favourite character, and all the while the likes of Aimee in Little Rock were bitching about him, I never doubted he was doing what he was doing for the good of the survivors.

File this under the "holy fuck, that did NOT just happen!" episodes with the liked of "Two For The Road" and "What Kate Did". I loved this episode. It wasn't as satisfying as "The Brig", but it was every bit as great an episode, just in a different, Others?Answers/Creepy kind of way.

-J

tall guy said...

I did feel cheated by this episode. The Jacob revelation turned out to be a sleight of hand by the writers, pushing the mystery away, rather than clarifying anything. I expected some real understanding of the nature of the Island, but got nothing.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Ok, I gotta say something first off.

I freaking hated this episode!!!

What the hell was that? Serious? Not only do I hate crazy, "oooh, it's magic!" explanations to mysterdies, this episode didn't answer anything. It just added about 20 new mind boggling questions. Yeah, we know Ben's origin. But what of it?

I personally would've liked it a whole heck of a lot more if it turned out that Ben was bat shit crazy and was talking to himself. The second everything went all twilight zone in that room, I was pissed. But that's just me. It seems everybody else liked the ep.

I actually found the island stuff much more interesting. But of course they handled the game of oneupmanship and everybody calling out everybody about whats going in about 3 minutes.

And what the hell is with Alpert? So you're telling me that the "hostiles" don't age? And how weird did it look when Ben was grown and looked the same age as his dad? Speaking of his dad, I guess the daddy issues theme continues yet again.

Maybe I won't hate the ep so much tomorrow, but for now I feel like the comic book guy on the simpsons. "Worst episode ever". Ok, maybe not that bad, but still.

Anonymous said...

I can see why you don't like the episode, Jordan, but that fucked up, completely out of left field shit is what draws me to this show! Polar Bear on tropical island was number one, Paralyzed man can walk was another, monster is a cloud of black smoke is another, whispers in the jungle and dead people appearing for split seconds is another, mysterious leader is some god-like invisible entity is the most recent and up there with the most perplexing and awesome (still think the smoke monster reveal was the best).

-J

Jordan from the 206 said...

I'm all for mysteries. But it just loses some of the fun for me when things start getting over the top crazy. The thing that is annoying me is that with the show going this crazy and out there, you can pretty much just answer every question we curently have with, "It's all magic" and leave it at that.

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. This past year there were 2 movies about magicians, "The Prestige" & "The Illusionist". Semi-spoiler warning, so if you haven't seen them, you might want to skip this. Without going to far, all I will say is that one of the movies had a plausible yet convoluted real world answer to all it's mysteries while the other had a supernatural ending. For me, it was much cooler to be tricked & then shown there was a sensible explanation to it all than to be tricked and told at the end, "I'm the boogey man. Don't bother making sense of anything. The end. Bwahaha."

I'm probably the only one who thinks this way, but I like crazy weird mysteries when there is a somewhat tangible explanation at the end of the road. Obviously that's not the case with Lost. But besides all that, I just didn't like this episode. Not just for the above reasons, but I didn't get much from it besides Ben killed his father, there's some weird ghost jacob thing, and a couple dozen new questions.

MB said...

Best...episode...EVER!!!!!!!

(until the next best ep. ever ;))


Edge of my seat the ENTIRE time.

Oh my fucking god! I actually thought about just cutting and pasting Kim's initial post b/c that is exactly what I was trying very hard not to say too loudly to my self (so as not to wake the family) for about 10 minutes after my first viewing.

This was absolutlely the episode I have been waiting for - it totally delivered for me - And it had MORE WTF moments than The Brig!

Just too damn much to process but -

I'm with Casey - Locke's not dead, or will be resurrected.

I am TOTALLY with Morgan that Jacob is trapped there and perhaps by the gray powder. Good pull that it might be like a salt ring. But the big mystery that is eating up my brain power now, and I think will wield major answers (duh) is why are there so many apparitions on this island, Jacob included. I'm not saying he's the same thing as Jack seeing his dad, or Ben seeing his mom, but it means something that so many people have seen apparitions, that Walt can appear somewhere he's not, and that Jacob is invisible for the most part except to Ben - and maybe Locke if he did see the figure we saw for 11 frames (dunno yet). What is the cause? I think they are connected and I have not one shred of evidence to present right now (proof is for candy-asses!) ;)

As far as the Jack thing goes - you know - I mean, yeah he's annoying, but for me it's just that he's doing what he's done from the beginning which is to try too hard to take responsibility for EVERY-fucking-THING. You can argue that that's not good leadership, and why doesn't he trust everyone more, but I guess it just doesn't piss me off because I'm used to it and I understand it comes from feeling like he has to be the responsible one b/c his father was an alcoholic and untrustworthy in his eyes. The thing that will and always has fucked Jack up is when his stubbornness gets infused with anger or resentment, because then his tenacity turns from an asset to a liability as we saw in him stalking Sarah (I'm sure there's more but I'm too tired). So, I think Jack will come through in one way or another

I have work still to do tonight (AAARRGGH!!) - GOD i wish I could write more. Somehow, I already feel better having a finite 48 episodes left. This is gonna be one helluva story when it's all over!

Oh - and to answer Holli's question from....a lot earlier - I had NO...I-DEA about the end. Frankly I had very little idea about all of this - I probably shouldn't say that as the 'spoiler-guy' right? I'm supposed to be prescient!!!! Um....yikes....that started to sound scary :)

Good night my favorite bloggers in the whole wide world!

MB said...

One last post -
Jordan - I don't think the writers by any means were saying 'it's all magic' with this episode. I CAN understand the frustration at getting so little in the way of a Jacob explanation, but it seems to me that we've just been shown the next layer of what this entire story is about, just like a layer was pulled back when Locke, Jack & Co. looked down into the swan hatch for the first time, and just like watching flight 815 blow up over Othersville. The world of Lost just got a whole lot bigger IMO, and I like that.

MB said...

103....
good luck (and good night)

P.S that should be the other way around shouldn't it?

Anonymous said...

jordan,

You mentioned The Prestige and The Illusionist. I've only seen The Prestige only and I was just curious which one was the one with the convulted but plausible answer ending, and which was one that had the supernatural ending? I think the ending of The Prestige could be argued either way.

-J

MB said...

really...I'm going to bed...

but did anyone guess "Road to Shambala" for the music? I don't remem........(snore)

tall guy said...

I'm with Jorden on this. Pure whack-out strangeness for its own sake is not good storytellling. Lost is not Twin Peaks. We've come to expect a logically constructed narrative from this show. I hope the poers that be haven't let us down. We need, a least a hint of a good grounded explanation for Jacob, before the end of series three.

And if they don't let us know whether Locke is alive or dead before the end, I'll be really pissed. Next Feb is long time to wait.

Anonymous said...

tall guy,

But that's my entire argument. Pure whack-out strangeness has been an aspect of this show from day one. Why is this most recent occurence any different from those in the past? how are the smoke monster or the whispers any more logical than an invisible man?

I just don't get the beef with the Jacob scene. It was classic LOST.

-J

Anonymous said...

ka ... blamo?

-J

PalmerEldritch said...

holli, malcolm does win the thread. but i give it to him for "Locke The White." that's freakin' brilliant.

and morgan, i REALLY like the Jacob being trapped in a magic circle via salt idea. i doubt he's a pixie or a sprite but it's a neat idea that he's a spirit or a demon.

is Immortal Alpert (Alpy) some sort of Angel or Demon? i hope not. although a slight implication might be interesting.

and did you hear Locke's line at the very end of the episode? he said "I'm not dead yet!" ;)

/brave sir robin ran away

memphish said...

I'm listening to Jay & Jack's listener feedback and some dumb ass girl says she just realized that everyone on the Island had daddy issues. She probably thinks its purgatory too. I needed to rant. Thanks.

Holli

Mike Campbell said...

I was impressed with the episode. I will be even more impressed with the show if they kill Locke. I like Locke as much as the next guy but removing him from the show would be a big statement that they will kill anyone at anytime. I am sure since him and the Island are best good friends he will be around longer but i agree we will not find out till next year.

PalmerEldritch said...

Locke'll return at some pivotal point to say something cryptic. Fear not.

Holli, that's why I skip over the calls. It's rarely anything that hasn't already been mentioned eight thousand times already on the Interwebs.

Jonathan said...

Am I the only one who just assumed that the powder Locke was inspecting around Jacobs house is dried up lava, from the volcano? I guess I think that because Ben's most recent flashback at that point addressed the volcano.

I thought this episode was so much better than The Brig. In The Brig, I think we all knew that Sawyer was going to kill Sawyer by the end of the episode, and we had to wait 50 minutes for it to happen. At least in this episode we met Jacob and still had enough time to possibly kill Locke. I didn't see that coming at all.

memphish said...

Palmer, I'm too anal to skip, and lately there have been some good callers whose ideas I can steal. Today, not so much.

Holli

memphish said...

Jonathan, would lava flow in such a narrow strip? I guess I should have paid more attention to Samantha Mathis. I'm a big fan of "That Thing Called Love" too.

Holli

Jonathan said...

Yeah, I think lava would flow in narrow strips towards the bottom of the volcano. It's like an ocean leading to rivers (bad example, but it makes sense to me).

memphish said...

Here's a theory that I'm stealing though modified from Jay and Jack. The J&J theory is that someone will rescue Locke. So as not to spoil J&J listeners, I won't tell you who Jack picked. But I think Desmond will have a flash and see Locke and go to rescue him which is why Charlie will be on his own next episode.

Holli

Jonathan said...

After this episode, I guess we now realize why fertility problems aren't "novelties" to Ben after all.

trevor mcfur said...

I can kind of understand some folks being upset if the show really does go down a hardcore scifi/supernatural road. I personally wouldn't mind, as long as the writing stays sharp and the story stays strong. The producers early on did say pretty consistently that everything on the show is in some way grounded in reality, so if they've completely jumped into the supernatural realm, then it might be a sign that they've written themselves into a corner that they can't get out of without 'magic' ... and that would bother me, because I do like to thing that the 'big musteries' on the show are planned out.

And please, don't turn this blog into a discussion of The Prestige; it's near the top of my queue, and I don't want to be spoiled!!!! Or, at least post a big warning and leave lots of space before the spoiler so no one stumbles upon it! :)

trevor mcfur said...

Lava doesn't dry up. When it cools, it solidifies into hard rock.

Spent part of my honeymoon at Volcano Park in Hawaii last year...

Jonathan said...

Trevor,
Right, it forms into that cool-looking silver rock, but I thought there are different types of lava and they will dry differently depending on the viscosity and temperature. Then again, it's been a long time since I learned about this in middle school and it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way, I hope the volcano explodes at some point before series end!

trevor mcfur said...

There's two types. One is like this thick gloppy stuff that flows like pancake batter and solifdifies like that. The other forms like these sharp jagged rocks with sharp points sticking out every which way. Ummm, that's pretty all I know about lava! Except that it looks really cool.

PalmerEldritch said...

Lava also killed Smeagol like a bitch.

Kirklain said...

Ok my wife who has only a passing interest in the show asked whether Annie was a young Rouseau? any thoughts?

And in the Jacob hut... did my eyes trick me or did we see a young black person in the chair as the room was been thrown about... as in Walt perhaps?! looked twice and kinda saw the same thing, not sure if it was a boy or just background furniture! Anyway slowmo the scene?

Also, at the end with Locke, he was about to whip out his gun, and i'm sure it was in his hand before he got blast away by Ben... but where did that gun go? i'm sure you can't see it in the pit.

Jonathan said...

Can someone explain this to me: if the Dharma Initiative was taken over by the hostiles (and Ben), say 20 something years ago, who recruited Kelvin?? We know he hasn't been there for that long (at least since after the Gulf War), so I'm very confused.

trevor mcfur said...

We don't know if Kelvin was actually formally recruited by Dharma. He might have somehow crashed onto the island like Desmond and wound up in the hatch with Radzinsky ... I don't remember exactly what he said when he told Dez that he joined with Dharma, but I kind of thought that it was in a way that was bitter and sarcastic. What I want to know is, who's doing the palate drops? And what did Dharma do after the purge?

I think, for that little girl, that there's a lot of story that's been untold (future flashback material!). I wonder if something happened to her to completely push Ben over to the dark side. It's one thing to leave Dharma and join the Others ... it's another to kill not only your drunk loser father, but also everyone you've lived with for 10+ years. Plus, I don't remember seeing the girl when Ben was walking around the compound at the end.

PalmerEldritch said...

my co-worker made a good point about Alpert. does the dude have only four toes per foot?

tall guy said...

I have a suspicion that not all the Dharma people were killed in the purge.

tall guy said...

The whole Richard Alpert eyeliner thing, makes me think of Johnny Dep in Pirates of the Caribbean. Is this a sly visual reference towards the Black Rock shipwreck? Maybe the ageless Alpert and crew have been there all this time, as some have mentioned?

stephsmith said...

A Thing Called Love, wasn't that Sandra Bullock's first movie? River Pheonix is like our generation's James Dean.
Kimberley, I'm disappointed the Russian girl didn't get voted off. I can't believe the skinny hispanic is still in the running to be the America's next Top Model.

Was Patchy telling Sayid more of the truth than we thought? Was he Dharma but joined the hostiles after the purge?
It's so funny how everyone is always handing Sayid electronics. He has sissy hands.
I hate doing the Heroes spoilers on Thursday. My mind is in Lost-mode.

Jimmy said...

I loved it. The way I see it is:

1. The Hostiles are part of Hanso, working on their life exstension program.

2. For some reason a war breaks out between Hanso and Dharma.

3. The smoke monster was Bens Mother.

4. Over the years Ben would contact Richard and Crew, feed them with misinformation, make promises that with Dharmas technical info he could help them "solve a problem" that they had. Possibly an inability to breed if you are extending your life??

5. Ben starts the purge. By then is almost a leader to the Hanso people. Possibly Ben supplanted Alvor Hanso (Jacob). Keeps him prisoner?

6. Overtime as a leader who cannot fullfill all promises, he actively has to recruit people from the outside to come in to solve the issues (e.g. Juliette). Also lab rats like Kelvin?

7. Ben at this stage is clearly a leader in Peril, with his flock losing the faith.

That''s all., Really enjoyed it!

trevor mcfur said...

I agree Jimmy, Ben's leadership is definitely in trouble ... how about the way that Tom & Richard were pretty much just ignoring him as Locke was beating the snot out of Patchy? If he comes back and tells them all that Jacob killed Locke ... does he think that will re-establish his authority? One other thing that we learned last night -- Locke did steal the recorder, it wasn't a setup by Ben (unless he's lying to Richard too).

I thought that Dharma/Hanso were one and the same? Either way, I think that we might be finding out that, in the big picture of the island's mythology, Dharma is really not that important. They were there for a while, did their thing, and were driven off by The Others ... who, as it turns out, were there long before Dharma, and whom we still don't know a whole heck of a lot about!

PalmerEldritch said...

Locke will be healed by the Island. He will come back and wreak havoc on the Others thanks to Alpy.

memphish said...

Kirklain, I don't think Annie = Rousseau. The woman is batshit crazy, but to fake a bad French accent for 16 years. That's talking to an empty chair crazy.

I also think the fact that the French transmission loop shows it has been running 16 years debunks it too.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

is Richard Alpert an anagram for anything? get on it, denizens of the interwebs!

PalmerEldritch said...

ok... apparently there are over 1600 anagrams from that name. screw that.

trevor mcfur said...

How bout this one:

Rip hard rectal.

PalmerEldritch said...

trevor, no wonder poor Ben's eyes are always bugging out of his head!

trevor mcfur said...

And maybe there's a reason that they call Tom 'Mr. Friendly'...

Ally said...

OK you guys are too much with that ALPERT anagram thing. LOL.

stephsmith said...

Evi on Jimmy Kimmel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fw4Om8Yd98
She has body image issues. She needs therapy. She's nuts.

trevor mcfur said...

It's a shame that she has body image issues ... because I've frequently imagined her body...

MB said...

Still reeling from the episode.

Jimmy - I agree with you about Ben - I had in my notes during the show that his power is crumbling.
But I was wondering why you thought the Hostiles were part of Hanso? Not disagreeing with you - I think it's an intriguing idea.

RE: the grey powder - it certainly could be pulverized basalt or pummice or something, however i thought it had been put there (by whom I don't know). It seemed a bit out of place in the middle of the forest for a lava flow, I would think there would be more obvious evidence of other flows in the area. But WTF do I know from lava flows.
It did look like an artificially made perimiter to me though, which is one of the reasons I think the 'trapped Jacob' idea makes sense to me.

Benjamin said...

The French transmission says it's been running for sixteen years if you believe the iteration count. But who's to say that can't be faked? Or left by another woman who's now dead? Annie may indeed be Danielle. I don't think she is, but it hasn't been disproven.

Locke the White must return now, or I'll be sad and confused until 2008 and may be even sadder and more confused when someone stumbles on his dead body.

I think the ring is to keep Jacob in. And I think it's gunpowder. Hey, does anyone remember some old movie where Chevy Chase (I think) is possessed by some evil spirit and a voodoo lady is trying to protect someone from him so she lines the house with cocaine to keep him out but he just goes crazy and snorts it all? Because I think I remember that.

This "Lost" show is pretty sweet.

elias said...

Fuck!!!!

Locke cannot die - Jacob will save him somehow.

Despite hating Jack's leadership style, Kate and, most of all, Ben, this was the most exciting and revealing episode of Lost ever.

My only theory is that Jacob is the smoke monster, not a figment of Ben's imagination.

- Help Me!

MB said...

Hey Ben!

I missed that Chevy Chase gem :)
Maybe Charlie will re-lapse and in a fit of desperation, snort all the grey powder, thereby releasing Jacob who, in an act of Ben Linus-like hypocrisy, will kill Charlie for being a 'Bad Person' and a druggie.

stephsmith said...

Modern Problems. Nell Carter was the Creole maid or something.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082763/
Jacob is Locke's bad twin. I'm gonna keep guessing until I get it right.

Mike Campbell said...

Judging from that pic of Jacob i think Kris Kristofferson plays jacob.

elias said...

Mike - close but no guitar ;)

Ally said...

i agree with the kris kristofferson being theory.

MB said...

Steph -
There have been some people saying they think that the the figure you see for like 11 FRAMES in the cabin looks like Locke (check the pics
- you have to scroll down a bit.) I don't think I agree - but the pics are pretty cool.

MB said...

I think I f-ed up that link - sorry!

check out the pics here

stephsmith said...

Thanks, mb. I was cussing Vista, blaming it for each time I was knocked off-line.
I think the audio is Carlton. That's fantastic!
As far as the actor, I think it's some cameraman or some randon person from the set. They knew we would run the video through filters to try to figure out the identity. They aren't going to make it easy for us.

http://www.rbb-online.de/_/fernsehen/index_jsp/key=5484524.html

mansfield bullington said...

Jacob is the same as Walt. But somehow he's been imprisoned in that shack.

The spoiler guy is hilarious.

memphish said...

Is that Ben's Man Purse over Michael Emerson's shoulder in the picture for this post?

Holli

aimee in little rock said...

Holy freaking batshit. I hate to say this, but every episode keeps becoming my favorite episode EVER!

1. Look at the screen caps of Jacob. It totally looks like Terry O'Quinn. I haven't read anything anywhere yet, I just saw the screen shots and immediately thought this based on the facial features. Seriously, check it out, and I dare you to tell me I'm crazy.

2. Palmer, the "younger" Alpert totally had that 'ranger from the north' look down, with the long scraggly (but sexy) hair. I don't know how the eyeliner plays into it, but I actually thought he was hot (which I've NEVER thought of Alpert before), and that's only because I'd marry and/or bang any Dunedain ranger.

3. I don't know why, but for some reason I feel like Locke is not gone yet. Call it intuition, call it delusions of Losteur. It just doesn't feel right yet. Either way, I hope someone rips Ben's balls out with some rusty pliers, and then beats him to death with his own book collection.

4. How awesome was it that Roger Workman was Ben's dad?

5. Why did Alex think Locke needed a gun to see Jacob?

Ughh, so many questions!!! But what a fucking awesome episode.

MB said...

Watching the clip of Jacob pushing Ben against the wall again - two thoughts which I have no idea if they mean anything:

- I know the shot is practically all shadow but Jacob looks kind of Biblical with the hair and his clothes look like they might be a bit tattered and old. In fact they look to me like the garb that Tom and Co. were wearing in "The Hunting Party" when they face off with Jack, Locke and Sawyer.

- The fact that we can see Jacob right after he apparently gets upset (when Locke turns the flashlight on), reminded me of (and I normally don't reference this movie) Ghost - where stong emotion and focus is what allows a spirit to bridge the gap between their world and ours, and have a physical presence. However, while Ben may very well be lying, he seems to be able to see him all the time. I don't know - it's a mindf***

PalmerEldritch said...

if Jacob is Tom Bombadil, i'm getting the hell out of LOST. :)

trevor mcfur said...

"I actually thought he was hot..."

Yeah, you're crazy.

MB said...

Hey Aimee!

Agree with all your points, except I'm just not sure that Jacob looks like Locke - maybe I'm nucking futs on this one. Did you see the pic someone ran through filters and stuff? (you have to scroll down)

Really good question about Alex and the gun - I was literally just thinking about that!

Benjamin said...

Alex gave Locke the gun for Ben, not for Jacob. I bet.

Did anyone catch a glimpse of an eye when Jakey-boy was having his tizzy? Because I swear I did, and it was brown. Which means it's neither Locke's nor Ben Linus's.

morgan said...

Jeeze, I'm still processing the episode. I think that Jacob must have Walt's powers of bilocation. Or he can make himself be (as Stephen King calls it) "dim."

More and more, I'm leaning toward the alternate universe thing. In one version, the plane crashes, everyone dies. In another, they crash on the island. If you read enough Stephen King, you'll start to see more and more parallels to Lost. Maybe the island is where the fabric of these universes meet or become "thin." The whispers aren't from ghosts, they're from people from the other version of the island "leaking" through.

It could be that Jacob IS Locke, not from a different time, but a different version of our reality.

I dunno. I'm still confused.

Aimee or anyone: have you read King's Dark Tower series?

Marshall Bailey said...

Aimee said...

"that's only because I'd marry and/or bang any Dunedain ranger"


Point noted. ;)

MB said...

Ben - YES there was an eye - Dark UFO has a screencap and a slo mo video (scroll down the page).

Anonymous said...

great episode. wow! its changed the way you have to view and theorize about lost! all the people who always tryed to figure out logical reasoning for things can give that up. any and every crazy theory is now game!

MB said...

Morgan - I have been thinking the same thing about the whispers and all the apparitions - that this island may have some kind of trans-dimensional quality, where different realities bleed through into each other.
I don't know - it sounds more sci-fi than this show seems to lean, but the idea does seem to work so far.

Jonathan said...

Ben,
I am starting to think it's gunpowder around Jacob's lair too. I think whatever it is it is meant to keep him confined. I have this vision of a future episode where characters want to go after Jacob but there's a ring of fire around the house and they can't get in.

PalmerEldritch said...

mb, i like the Romana avatar. the second Romana does nothing for me.

aimee in little rock said...

I've read the first of the Dark Tower series (The Gunslinger) out of curiosity a few months back. Coincidentally, that book was added to the Lost Library in 3x13, so woohoo, I beat them at their own game.

memphish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PalmerEldritch said...

don't nobody scuff the circle around Jacob's or he'll get out.

memphish said...

Aimee, what was The Gunslinger reference in 3x13?

Holli

aimee in little rock said...

It was on Ben's nightstand, so it wasn't referenced, the book was actually seen on the show.

Jimmy said...

After going to

www.hansofoundation.org

I am now sure that Jacob's screenshot is in fact Alvar Hanso.

I'm sticking to my theories. It's the perfect marketing to get people to jump back into the Lost Experience

MB said...

Palmer - no joke, I was gonna go with Romana #2, but I thought you'd enjoy a pic of ol' Mary Tamm and Tom Baker.

Aimee - well now I'm rethinking whether I think Jacob looks like Locke.

here's that filtered pic of Jacob

and here's Locke

What do people think

memphish said...

Thanks. I picked it up for my summer reading without knowing it had been on the show. I knew people said that the series "influenced" LOST and I've liked the other Stephen King I've read so I figured, perfect for the beach.

There's a "clear" picture of Jacob up at The Tail Section.

Holli

MB said...

JIMMY - GOOD FUCKING CALL - jeeebeeezus I'm easily swayed!

Or perhaps - Magnus Hanso?

trevor mcfur said...

I think that it's Dennis Hopper.

memphish said...

I'm going with he's the actual Jacob from the Bible and which makes him 6000 or so years old and he's having a hard time materializing like Mrs. Which in A Wrinkle in Time, another LOST book.

Holli

P.S. It doesn't look like TOQ or Kris Kristofferson at least, but I don't know how that filtering stuff works and how accurate it is. Seems to me no one successfully identified Patchy over the winter hiatus using similar methods.

MB said...

Hell for all we know Locke could be a Hanso - we don't know much about his family history beyond Cooper do we?

PalmerEldritch said...

MB,

Romana I > Romana II. But I think Erin Gray from Buck Rogers might beat them both.

MB said...

I thought that too Trevor.

Damn - Holli - I like that idea too. b/c I was thinking that maybe Jacob is so old that his body has gone away and he exists purely out of body, and only can be seen at certain time by certain people.

Christ I better take a break - everything sounds good

aimee in little rock said...

I couldn't get onto the hanso site. It said there are too many users or something. What does the site show?

PalmerEldritch said...

Alvar

PalmerEldritch said...

Aimee, the site finally loaded for me. http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

memphish said...

To totally change the subject, I liked Claire with black hair, Evangeline Lilly with blondish hair, not so much.

Holli

aimee in little rock said...

I got to it. Jimmy just posted the wrong url. It was "the" hansofoundation.org. I was misled. Hmmm...I think Jimmy is a mole.

morgan said...

I thought of "Carrie", Juliet's favorite book, when Jacob's house was freaking out. Telekinesis and stuff. And were those jars of paint on the shelf? Did he paint that dog picture? Was that Vincent?

morgan said...

Aimee, you should read the other 6 Dark Tower books when you have the time. They tie into his other books, notably: Hearts In Atlantis, The Stand, and Salem's 'Lot.

aimee in little rock said...

I know about the Hearts in Atlantis reference, after reading that one, because of the conversation with the Low Men. I planned to read the rest of the series, but I still have 21 books ahead of them first.

Considering I finished 37 books during the last hiatus, I don't see that being a problem.

PalmerEldritch said...

aimee, it's really good to have you back posting on the blogspot but you scare me with your book reading prowess.

MB said...

37 books - seriously?!? That's amazing.

Aimee if you've been looking for your opposite - I think it's me.
I've been reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy (for the first time) over the last 10 years. I'm still on Two Towers. I think I'm sorry that I'm admitting this.

Ally said...

geez aimee! that's a lot of books! makes me wanna start reading more, but i probably won't.

PalmerEldritch said...

i'll meet you in the new thread, booktalkers.