Wednesday, February 25, 2009

Post Episode Discussion: The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham

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201 comments:

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JonFromNKY said...

FFFFFiiirssss...... never mind. That's so 2006

t-dot kim said...

This is great...

t-dot kim said...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!

JoeSC said...

This episode is shaping up to be Mt. Lostmore worthy!

Trevor McFur said...

Wow, that Locke/Walt scene was maybe the most awkward scene in Lost history.

"Last I heard, he was on a freighter near the island. Yup, that's how it was".

Trevor McFur said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
t-dot kim said...

OMG!

JoeSC said...

Good thing Fringe is doing well!

Trevor McFur said...

Good old Locke. Played for a sucker by Ben one more time.

JoeSC said...

Locke has officially had the worst life ever!

t-dot kim said...

Agreed!

What's so special about Jin? Did you see the look on Ben's face when John told him Jin was still alive? Hummmm?

Trevor McFur said...

He's damn hard to kill though ... out the window, the plane crash, getting shot by Ben, falling down the well, and now getting strangled to death...

Trevor McFur said...

Maybe he figured that gave him a way to get Sun back without using Locke?

t-dot kim said...

hummmm, good point

t-dot kim said...

It makes sense...the 815ers "flashed" to where ever Jin in the Dharma suit was in 1970? 1980?, and the 316ers crashed in 2008.

memphish said...

So who's good and who's bad between Ben and Widmore? I'm definitely leaning toward Widmore good; Ben bad.

While it had some really good things, the scene with Jack and Locke was a highlight for me as well as Helen's sad death, this was a Meet Kevin Johnson. It filled in blanks and blanks I wanted filled, but the filling was a little less spectacular than any crazy imaginings I might come up with on my own.

And is the plane on The Hydra? Seems to me like it is. And who put Cesar in charge?

Holli

andrew. said...

they totally crash landed on the air strip that Sawyer & Kate helped build.

Stephanie said...

Not as great as 316 but great still.
I knew Katie Segal wasn't on the guest star list so when Locke started asking for her I figured Helen was dead.
Why didn't Ben just allow Locke to kill his self?
My questions were answered: how would Locke travel without papers and would he be in a wheelchair.
Holli, I can see why you say it's a fill in the blanks episode. We know the Oceanic 6 come around in the end so it means nothing to us how they react to John urging them to go back to the island.
Why are Cesar and Iliana not freaking out like our survivors were in the beginning of Lost.
What structure was that Cesar was rummaging through?
Shocking when Abaddon was shot.
Tears to see Walt.

andrew. said...

- So Lapidus & Sun took off in the boat with the manifest, headed for the main island? But if the boats are on the Hydra island, then how does team Sawyer come across them?

- poor Abaddon. Has he been written off of the show for good? or will he be the new Naomi, appearing more after death than before?

Trevor McFur said...

I'm leaning Widmore good now too, at least compared to Ben.

I liked the Jack/Locke scene too, it filled in that last little gap that pushed him to completely crazy for me. And I liked that we saw the Beard under construction.

The rest didn't do much for me. It just kind of connected the dots to move the story along, but for the most part it was so superficial that it was hard to get into. I didn't feel at all like Locke had become so despaired that he would take his own life. And I really, really, really hated the Walt scene. Not only poorly written ... not only does it turn out that MDK is a bad actor ... but it felt like such a brush off for that whole storyline. I guess, pretty much, that's all we're ever gonna get. I know that they're not going to be able to answer all of the mysteries, but the whole story behind Walt's abilities and what makes him special is a big one to just blow off.

Stephanie said...

Jack, Kate, Hurley and Jin are in the past. Locke, Sun, Ben and Lapidus are in the present? Where's Sayid? When Sun and Lapidus get to Othersville, will Jin be like 60 years old?

Terry_O_Locke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trevor McFur said...

I also wonder if the story was really served by letting you know that Locke was resurrected as soon as the episode started. I mean, we all knew that he was gonna come back, but telling us at the beginning of the ep really underscored the whole fill in the blanks nature of the episode.

Stephanie said...

Oh! I see. Ajira crashed on the second island!

memphish said...

Too bad Locke didn't have any Tyson chicken in New York.

And who gave Locke authority to decide who needed to go back in the first place? As Lt. Daniels (Abaddon) said, they all have to go back. In fact I wonder if that's why the results have now been "unpredictable" with the 815ers in DI Days and the 316ers (damn I hope they all die soon so they can get off my screen) in 2007/8. Will they leave again and have to try to come back again?

I'm pretty sure Locke was the one who came up with his own "you have to die" thing and told Richard who told him. Seems like Widmore and Ben thought he needed to live until Ben got enough info. to off him because he was going to take the Island.

Just noticed that Franklin McFur seems to be on the board. It's not easy being brown.

Holli

t-dot kim said...

Why would Sun go with Lapidus? Wouldn't she flash with Jack, Kate and Hurley?

Trevor McFur said...

Hmm, Richard told Locke that he had to die ... did Locke tell Richard or did Christian/Jacob tell Richard?



I got kids all over town...

memphish said...

Maybe Sun wasn't supposed to come back because of Locke's promise to Jin so she stayed in 2008? There wasn't any other woman beside the flight attendant that we knew on the Island though. Unless Eloise Hawking tagged along. The idea of new characters is already ticking me off.

Holli

Stephanie said...

I hope Aimee isn't upset by seeing Locke's wreck.

t-dot kim said...

I hope it isn't Sun with Frank. Flight Attendant makes more sense. I think Ben and John should be the only 2 traveling together. The 815ers should be together. 'SHOULD" be. I like that Cesar is hybrid of Jack and Sayid

JoeSC said...

I really have high hopes for Cesar and Ilana after this episode.

PalmerEldritch said...

andrew.!

"they totally crash landed on the air strip that Sawyer & Kate helped build."

THAT was the brilliant theory you came up with that we were talking about a few weeks ago. thrice damned time travel!


"I like that Cesar is hybrid of Jack and Sayid"

i call him... Jackay!

fun episode. was hoping for Abaddon to be creepier. oh well.

who's good? Ben or Widmore? why can't they both be greedy fuckers out for themselves?

JoeSC said...

I want to see the scene where Sayid finds out that Ben lied to him about the reason for murdering everyone on the list.

CJ said...

I so dug what happened to Ben. Wondering what was Locke at the end?

andrew. said...

Big revelations this episode:
- Locke is alive alive.
- the plane did crash on the island
- Widmore is bi-polar. Sometimes he's hooking you up with fake passports and a driver/not-very-good-bodyguard and sometimes he's all up in your face, double fisting glasses of McCutchins (maybe he's the one with the bad twin! j/k not a real theory, make it go away)
- Katie Segal has better things to do than appear in an episode of LOST
- Locke's 2 Proud 2 Beg (won't call Widmore, won't Enter 23 to tell Widmore "hey, send me another driver dude, mine caught a flat")
- WAAAAAAAALT! is really well adjusted. "Hey Dude! So you got off the crazy island huh? cool, cool. I'd love to stay and chat but I gotta go hide out in my grandma's attic some more"
- When working with polar bears in a tropical environment, tape your sawed-off shotgun under the desk. They'll never look there.
- Don't introduce new Characters this late in the game. Holli don't play that.

JoeSC said...

There's one thing that confused me, though... In "This Place Is Death," Sun asked Ben why John didn't tell her Jin was alive when he came to see her, but in this episode, John says that he never went to see Sun right before Ben killed him...

Did I miss something???

andrew. said...

- Joe - Sun didn't actually say that Locke ever visited her.

[Sun nods. Ben removes a gold ring from his pocket and hand sit to Sun. Sun reads the inscription.]

SUN: (speaks Korean) [Looks at Ben (speaks English)] How did you get this?

BEN: John gave it to me.

JACK: You said John never came to see you.

BEN: That’s true Jack. I went to see him. Jin gave it to him before he left the Island.

SUN: What didn’t John tell me himself?

BEN: I don’t know. Maybe he didn’t have a a chance before he died. I’m sorry I had to bring you hear before I gave it to you, Sun. But all those people back on the Island, Jin included, need our help. There is a woman in this church and she can tell us how to get back to your husband. But we’re running out of time, Sun. So I need you to decide right now. Will you come with me?

Herlihy said...

I'm loving the ambiguity between Widmore and Ben about who is the good one. I don't know why, but I'm rooting for Ben to be the good one... even though he's much better when he's being all evil and strangling people.

I really don't see people's issues with new characters... There's a season and a half left, there's plenty of time, 27 episodes if I'm not mistaken... I, for one, don't have any qualms about new characters. I'm liking Illana a bit more than Caeser. Mainly because of the bit where she gave Locke a crazy look when he revealed that he'd died.

This episode was amazing. Totally loved it. Best yet in S5. This is what Meet Kevin Johnson should have been like.

JoeSC said...

Good call Andrew... I didn't remember her exact line. Thanks!

JoeSC said...

Completely agree with you Herlihy. I loved this episode!

I know that there will be complaints about just filling in the gaps, but I found it totally intriguing to see everyone's reactions when they met with Locke.

I would never have thought that Sayid would be working for Habitat for Humanity (on an island no less) or that he would be so cordial towards Locke.

Granted, the scene between Locke and Walt seemed really forced, I thought the rest of the episode was really well done.

Plus Terry O'Quinn did one hell of an acting job. That scene in the apartment with Ben... I don't think I've ever felt so bad for Locke!

Herlihy said...

I believe that this is the best "filling in the gaps" episode that Lost has done. Much better than Meet Kevin Johnson and slightly better than The Other 48 Days.

Anyone else notice that when Widmore showed Locke the photo of Sayid working on that roof in the Dominican Republic, that when they cut to the scene where Locke speaks to Sayid, our resident torturer was doing the exact same work? HOW BIG IS THAT ROOF?

Are we going to get some torturing this season? Season 3 & 4 were sorely lacking some decent torture.

JoeSC said...

Maybe they were building an entire housing community... Sayid seemed like he was really enjoying himself, though.

Herlihy said...

How can you enjoy charity work? You can't. Therefore, he must be the Smoke Monster.

I CALLED IT FIRST.

...yeah, i'm a bit tired. Night blogspot.

PalmerEldritch said...

the sad part about those houses that sayid is building?

like everything else that Sayid fixes, they only last long enough to make a phone call or two.

JoeSC said...

Do we know what kind of structure Sayid was building exactly? Cabin, anyone??? Eh, maybe... Nah, too big.

PalmerEldritch said...

actually, sayid is just using his Oceanic 6 money to hire guys to build him houses so he can destroy them for fun with his Chuck Norris skills.

DenAss said...

Does anybody think Ben killed Locke because Ben didn't want Locke to commit suicide?

After last week's 316 episode with all of its religious undertones, it could be that Ben thought Locke could not be resurrected on the island if he killed himself. Therefore Ben HAD to kill him to allow him to come back to life on the island.

Thoughts?

JoeSC said...

I don't know... I got the feeling that Ben didn't have any intention of killing Locke until he brought up Eloise Hawking, but I could be wrong.

mb said...

Hey DenAss good to see you!

Well I'm on the side of loved it - both the wife and I agreed. I think that the reveal of Locke on island in 2008 hooked me right away, and then the information we're given re: Ben and Widmore cemented this episode as strong for me.

I wonder how this episode would have played in it's original slot - a week BEFORE 316. The only reveal in 316 I can think of that would have been spoiled would have been the knowing what Locke's letter said (right?).

I really think that it's not going to be clear in the end who's evil and who's good between Ben and Widmore. If I had to take a guess at how their characters will be seen in the end, I'd guess that they are both going to be part of a long long line of people who were leaders among the natives, but when Chuck and Ben's respective times were up, they didn't accept their "destiny".
Or Jughead just blows everything to dust - the end

I'm very interested in the upcoming "war" that Widmore spoke of - does he mean between himself and Ben?

"I wonder if that's why the results have now been "unpredictable" with the 815ers in DI Days and the 316ers

I believe that's exactly correct and the Cuselof have previously hinted at that just that (don't remember the source right now).

"Why didn't Ben just allow Locke to kill his self?"
My first thought was that by murdering Locke (responsible for the death) that he somehow becomes more closely linked to the O6 and has a better chance of getting back.
But that's BS because everyone on the plane got to the island

Is it possible that Christian Shepard was actually murdered (and so the 06 need a MURDERED dead body)? doubtful, right. Hmmm - I got nothin' :(

Actually - DenAss's idea makes the most sense - maybe if he had committed suicide, he'd be like Christian is - more of a ghost.

Like Herlihy I don't have a problem with the new characters - just another facet of this crazy-ass diamond. They'll serve their purpose, I doubt we'll get super invested in them.

Alright - eyes closing. night.

Holder said...

Of course Lapidus landed the plane...what kind of pilot do you think he is??

Jordan from the 206 said...

Woo hoo. Go Lost. Checking in late from China as usual. Only a few hours after all you east coasters had all your fun.

First off. Liked the ep. I REALLY don't get whoever it was that called this just another lame "Meet Kevin Johnson". I agree with Herlihy in that this is how MKJ should have been. Not only did it connect the dots and fill in the blanks. It did so while being entertaining andgiving us some new info. And most importantly, set up some pretty big story points for the future.

What's up with Ben feeling the need to kill Locke instead of simply letting him hang himself? I think DenAss might be onto something with Locke not being allowed to kill himself. Then again, maybe Ben is just a dick. More than anything though, I think the purpose was to further confuse the viewers as to who out of Ben and Widmore is the "bad guy".

Speaking of which, I think Palmer is on the right path. Who says either is "good"? Why can't we have two evil jack asses who simply have seperate evil jack ass agendas? However it is, I don't think we will know for sometime. I'm sure the writers will flip flop the general consensus back and forth a few times between now and the final scene.

Poor Malcolm David Kelly. Now we see why he had to take that Tyson Chicken gig. Looks as if the writers do not have anything more in mind for him. Kinda strange that Locke would be so cool with not needing him to return. But hey, the kid's been through enough, right? Guess that's nice considering John's attachment to the boy. Still strange. Locke is told "they have to come back", yet he's whatever about a couple of them. And yeah, Walt sure was cool with randomly running into Locke on the street.

Another character that was seemingly written out of the series, good ol Lt. Daniels. Honestly, this was more than I even expected. (that was before I was spoiled by everyone on the blogspot talking about him today. :P) The dude's got a full time gig with that silly Fringe show some of you here seem to like. This was clearly a way of tying up any loose ends with him, and at the same time getting him out of the story. I'm left to wonder however if the writers had more in mind for him before he get involved with Fringe. Which definitely limited his availability. Guess we'll never know. But it couldn't have been that big a deal. Cuz I doubt he would've taken the Fringe role had it been.

Moment that made me laugh. When Abbadon got out Locke's wheechair. Because Locke was standing up hobbling about 5 ft from the car that Abbadon was getting ready to wheel him into. Could've easily got in without it. lol. It was obvious that they really wanted to give us the "Locke meets his old friend" scene. Even if it didn't make sense.

Another extremely minor little thing that I chuckled at. The photo Widmore shows Locke of Sayid when they were in Tunisia was the exact same shot we see when Locke visits. Either Sayid specializes in working on that specific part of roofs, or he is a very slow worker.

Not sure why people are assuming that Sun was the woman with Frank. Only bit of rationale that suggests it is that she is in fact a woman. The logic of her flashing back in time with the other O6ers makes an infinite lot more ammount of sense. At least to me. That and I'm sure there are other survivors of the crash who could've filled the description of Frank's friend.

As for new characters. I'm not much up in arms. It's a new season, right? You're always going to have a couple. It's the way this show has always operated. Two new characters is nothing compared to last season. And look at how much everyone loves Faradork now. And hey! More log carriers to kill off! Yay! I think the writers were beginning to realize that they had killed off more than they orginally started with. FRESH MEAT!

Kate ONCE AGAIN ceases to fail at coming off like a total Seaward. "So Locke, you're telling me that if I don't go back, that everyone will die? Forget it! Screw 'em" And no, that was not a funny rephrasing of what she said. It was pretty much it.

Locke being "alive" makes me wonder if Christian Shepherd is as dead as we've always thought him to be. He might not exactly be the ghostly figure we've had him pegged for. Maybe Locke and Jack weren't seeing spirits afterall?

Hope Ralph isn't too torn up about his Further Instructions theory not panning out. Was fun while it lasted.

Terry_O_Locke said...

the promo for next week sucks. no I don't care near as much about a skater reunion I want to see how Locke kills Ben. If he doesn't I'll be shocked at his stupidity.

Herlihy said...

Bloody hell. Jordan agreed with me twice? in one day?!

Jordan from the 206 said...

Just a heads up bro. Some people around here try to avoid the previews for next week.

Jordan from the 206 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jordan from the 206 said...

What can I say? I'm an equal opportunist. Don't worry though. I'm sure you'll say something I disagree with soon enough.

Herlihy said...

Yeah... Don't be talking about promos and previews. ITSBAD.

Jordan - how about i tell you all my views on Bacon - The Most Overrated Meat Product Of All Time...?

memphish said...

To be clear, I called the episode a "Meet Kevin Johnson", but did not say it was as lame as that. But in terms of narrative structure it was exactly the same. Short present day info, flashback, back to short present day. As for these types of episodes, I'd put The Other 48 Days ahead of this, then Bentham, then Johnson.

I'll give the new characters a bit of time. I don't immediately hate the girl which is unusual for me, though I still don't know her name. So Cesar clearly knew something before he got on the flight right? That's why he took the gun and is so interested in the papers. No one else from the plane is investigating -- yet. It's weird that the girl isn't more concerned about her missing prisoner.

I like the immediate suspicion of Locke not being seen on the plane. Nice Ana Lucia callback. And I like that they found him standing in the water, just like when Jack first saw Christian Shephard.

I'm not sure what to make of Ben killing Locke. I agree it had something to do with the mention of Mrs. H. Jesus was of course killed for crimes he did not commit by the Romans to placate the Jews. Not sure how that parallels exactly, but I'll work on it. I guess John is killed by Ben to placate the O6? That could mean that Ben is indeed the illegitimate usurper of the Holy Land.

Holli

Herlihy said...

I'm thinking that this episode would have been better if it was shown last week instead of this week. It would have been a better reveal for us to see Locke and the 316ers on Hydra Island before we saw the 06 (minus Aaron) decide to get on the plane.

Also, I'm loving the idea that Lapidus is such a good pilot that he can land a crashing plane so safely that it doesn't break up. Lapidus FTW.
On a side note, my friend who is from San Francisco has just won an internship with Ustream.tv! She's going to be going to the South By South West festival and interviewing loads of bands for the site. Amazing. She's also coming over to the UK to do her Master's degree in September... Well going to get her to get me so free merch and stuff. :D

Is TLI going to be recorded tonight?

lauren_g34 said...

"Bacon - The Most Overrated Meat Product Of All Time...?"

WHAT????

Herlihy said...

I agree with Lauren G34.

Bacon is the most overrated meat product of all time.

PalmerEldritch said...

"Jordan - how about i tell you all my views on Bacon - The Most Overrated Meat Product Of All Time...?"

that's just crazy talk. unless yer not talking about Bacon from the United States. which is a belly cut. not a back cut like Canada or the UK. if you're talking about the bacon of the good ol' USA, then yer simply mistaken and i may be forced to taunt you about british food.

Ben killed Locke cuz Locke gave up all the secrets at once. he made himself completely unnecessary. "here's who i have to talk to get to the Island and here's how to get Sun to come with us." everyone else would follow Jack and Jack was already trying to get back to the Island. so, Ben double checked Eloise's name and then killed the heck out of Locke cuz he didn't need him anymore.

ben is a conniving little shit.

oh. and Locke and Ben didn't "flash" cuz they left via donkey wheel.

Herlihy said...

I've had both types of bacon, numerous times. In my first year at university, I lived with 5 people from the States who loved American style bacon. But like I said, overrated. Taunt about British food all you like... I'm not fussed.

memphish said...

I'm cooking with Bacon tonight. I'm making Nigella Lawson's Chicken, Mushroom and Bacon pie. And it will be delicious and completely not overrated.

Palmer, I agree about Locke and Ben not going in the flash. In typical Ben fashion he lied about not being able to go back to the Island, but he meant in time, not space. I think that's why Widmore wants to send Jack et al back to try to undo whatever con Ben pulled to get Widmore to leave the Island.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

mmm... bacon and nigella.

Herlihy said...

How could Widmore be exiled from the Island by Ben and still have enough time to set up a massive company that makes loads of money from pregnancy tests that he can buy expensive Whiskey? Unless, teenaged Ben got Widmore to leave....

memphish said...

I was just working on that too Herlihy. In 1954 Widmore is 17. They guarded the Island over 3 decades, that takes it the 1980s. The Widmore is "exiled by Him." Locke assumes Ben, but Widmore doesn't confirm that. And in 2007 Widmore should be 73 years old. Penny has to be at least 30, right? And that's generous. That means she was born when he was 43 and that should mean he was still on the Island. So Penny was born on the Island?

Holli

memphish said...

Oops, Widmore in present day should be 70.

Holli
/setup

PalmerEldritch said...

KA-BACON!!!


not to be confused with Kevin Bacon. although, Kevin Bacon was in Frost/Nixon with Andy Milder who was in Transformers with Hugo Weaving who was in Babe with... bacon!!!

PalmerEldritch said...

oh. and maybe Widmore Industries was a generic "Others" corporation that Widdy Cent took over.

andrew. said...

i was also figuring that Widmore & Hawking had a hand in setting up DHARMA in order to get back to the island, but Ben doesn't show up on the island until after DHARMA is in full swing, plus he doesn't meet Alpert until he's around 13 years old.
unless, Ben time travelled back to an earlier point, pre-DHARMA and kicked them off.

memphish said...

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone we know now tipping off Alvar Hanso or the DeGroots to the Island.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

did Benji and Widdy have a discussion on how they couldn't kill each other?

is that because of a Pre-destination Paradox where Ben had yet to Time-Fuck with Widdy's rule of the Island? probably not cuz i can't figure out why Widdy couldn't be killed then.

RRB said...

LOST...The when will John Locke grow some balls story.

lauren_g34 said...

"I agree with Lauren G34.
Bacon is the most overrated meat product of all time."
no no no-didn't you see the "WHAT"? :) I love Bacon! hmm, maybe that's why I have a big ass.

Herlihy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Herlihy said...

i did see it, i just chose not to remember it.

PalmerEldritch said...

i'm very much hoping that John Locke humiliates Ben at the end of the show. i'd love for our LOSTies to save the day (and the Island) and then exile Ben. Locke could even give him his patented "Amused-Locke Double Eyebrow Raise."

also, if Jack wants to beat the shit out of Ben again, that'd be cool too.

RRB said...

Johns passport has my birthday 2/15/??. Maybe that makes me Jermey American Bacon Bentham?

memphish said...

I was thinking last night that I wish Jack had indeed killed Ben in the S3 finale as I yelled at the TV for him to do way back then.

Holli

RRB said...

Or Jack and Locke Turnbuckleing Ben With a Syiad Drop kick, from the top of the Bear cage...for good measures of coarse.

Herlihy said...

Ben shouldn't die...ever. The show would be worse without him.

PalmerEldritch said...

RAM JAM!! RAM JAM FROM THE TOP TURNBUCKLE!!!




why did Widmore make Locke 8 years older on his new passport? with the three year time jump, that makes Locke 11 years younger than Jeremy Bentham is supposed to be. right? weird stuff.

1956 - 1948 = 8
8 + 3 = 11
11 = 108!!!!! HOLY CRAP.


/not really

RRB said...

Palmer please don't ruin my current joy with mathamatics

RRB said...

If you think about it to the average viewer they could have used Ben's beatin face from last year for Ben's beatin face from this year...

memphish said...

I was glad to see that Locke unlike Faraday took off his tie.

Holli

RRB said...

and he folded everything up and put them in the sand to wash later, What does this mean for Jack's dad is my question.."Can There be Only One?"

Ralph- said...

1. Further Instructions is the worse episode of lost ever.
2. how shitty of a carpenter is Sayid when it takes him FOR-EVER to put in that one roof slat?!
3. What the fuck is the point of giving him the name of Jeremy Bentham when NOBODY mentioned that name once?
4. this was the equivalent as Meet Kevin Johnson as far as making a back story interesting. All loose ends tied up without any sort of added drama. it was a BIG GIANT RESET BUTTON.

I enjoyed some of this episode, the first 10 minutes or so was really interesting, but just turned into hey look how Locke reacts with Oceanic Six Member # Blank. I have this feeling that Jin gave John the ring, just so the writers didnt have to write another scene about Locke talking to another unwilling participant. The Walt scene was there just to give validation to walt and hurley's conversation earlier.

I really liked the scene with Hurley, mostly because at this point Hurley is more interesting than Locke. Locke is way more uninteresting now that i saw that last episode. I feel like they are just stalling with Locke's character cause they dont have anything really to do with him, the same with what they are doing with Claire.

I liked the episode, cause it was Lost, but it was not really super fantastic, especially coming from Damon and Carlton.

Well, everyone is back on the island, so we are back to Lost. no more oceanic 6, no more Jeremy Bentham, no more skipping through time. Now, what was the importance of bringing ALL of them back?

I guess that is the big question.

Stephanie said...

I can't argue with you, ralph-. All that is true.

I would have been pissed if they had aired Bentham before 316. It would have been confusing not know who the eff Cesar and Iliana were even though it was anti-climactic that we knew the Oceanic 6 would change their minds about going back.

andrew. said...

- Did Locke ever tell WAAAAALT! that his name was Jeremy Bentham?
- In the LOST universe, nobody gets autopsied or embalmed.
- The LOST writers are probably just stalling to see how the BSG writers handle Starbuck.
- So Ben ended up in Tunisia a few months later. Locke turns the wheel 2 days later and ends up in Tunisia 3 years later. But what's really weird is that Ben turned the wheel in 2004, and Locke turned the wheel pre-Orchid.
- I didn't love or hate this episode. It just was. Despite Locke's dull interractions with the Oceanic 6, we did get a nice bit of exposition about Widmore vs Ben.
- So did Abaddon arrange all of the original Losties boarding Oceanic 815? He certainly implied it. Bye Lt. Daniels, have fun pushing pencils on Fringe.
- I'm going to predict that Iliana (did we learn her name on the show?) and Hurley make the sweet love. She's gotta be a love interest for somebody and Hurley deserves a little nookie.

memphish said...

I want to know when Iliana changed into capri pants. Not very Marshal like.

Holli

Jordan from the 206 said...

Not to be a nit-picky nerdy. But I think her name Ilana, not Il"i"ana.

Yes, Andrew. Never does Locke call himself Jeremy Bentham to Walt. WHOOPS!!!

James said...

Well I kind of lean Ralph's way with this episode. I thought it was "alright" at best.

Many of the same points Ralph mentioned I agree on. Some of the weaker moments...IMHO

Walt and Locke: "Hey...remember that crazy time on the magic Island...I think my Dad might have gone back...really? No shit? Anyway, got to go, nice to see you." I thought that was a total blow off of both the character and a waste of time.

Locke convincing the O'6 to return: I have shown more determination looking for detergent at Target!

Santa Monica: Looks a lot like Hawaii, doesn't it?

Tunisian Health care: That seemed a little Un-PC to me. Why the extreme melodrama and brutal doctors and staff? Much like the Hollywood stereotype that Arabs jump on top of you with a knife between their teeth shouting "Aaeeeeiii".

The "We've got to go back, Kate" Flashback: I am even more annoyed than ever before that last season when Kate argued with Jack at the airport she said "To think that you believe him....Jeremy Bentham, of all people"...another very, very lame red herring from Damon and Carlton.

Gripe over :)

Jordan from the 206 said...

Agreed about Locke's lack of determination. Not only that, he sure gave up quickly after and went straight to kill himself.

And yes! The whole Jeremy Bentham red herring was terrible in retrospect! Never once did we see Locke pretend to be Bentham around any of them. If he even ever mentioned it, it was always, "Oh and yeah, I have to pretend to be this Bentham guy". Yet they ALL refered to him as such. I totally realize why they did it. But it looks stupid now.

James said...

Yes Jordan, it would have been far more believable if Sayid had said to Hurley "I was visited by (puts slightly sarcastic tone, rolls eyes a bit) Jeremy Bentham"....but no, they all played it straight.

Trevor McFur said...

The more I think about it, the less I liked last night's ep, outside of the Locke/Jack scene, and Widmore at the beginning. I think it's because there was so much set up and mystery behind Locke off the island, it seemed like it would be a major plotline, and instead it's over and done with in an hour (twss). And I think we saw all of Locke's interaction with Walt, Hurley, and Sayid, and not once was he referred to as Jeremy Bentham. That's just sloppy writing. I would actually put it behind both MKJ and The Other 48 Days if we're ranking the 3 'fill in the blank' episodes.

mb said...

"Ben double checked Eloise's name and then killed the heck out of Locke cuz he didn't need him anymore."

Then I'm wondering why he was insistent that Locke had to go back to the island? It seems like Ben needs him for something.

PalmerEldritch said...

maybe Mrs. Hawkings said "oh. and, hey, you'll need John Locke." and then Ben was all "oh snap! should have taken the body with me then."

PalmerEldritch said...

i did like John's name tag saying "Jeremy Bentham" when he visited Hurley.

and did we see the whole conversation with Sayid?

Jack, hopefully obviously, knew he was posing as Jeremy Bentham from the hospital papers and the contents of Locke's wallet.


still, i agree that they should have made more of a deal of that.

Jordan from the 206 said...

I have absolutely no clue as to where Ben stands (and thats how I like it). But I think we know enough about him to know that whatever he is doing, he has some sort of plan. And you'd think that killing Locke fits into it somehow, right? Although the theory that Locke gave up all the info Ben needed from him is interesting. Still, Ben doesn't seem the type to do something so rash. The dude is always so calculated in his dealings.

mb said...

I agree with some of you about the sloppy writing in this episode, but I really have to disagree about the importance of the episode, considering what was revealed, elaborated, and setup: i.e. Widmore-Ben relationship, Locke-Ben-Frank - &Sun? I think so but we'll see - on island in 2008, new characters from Ajira, Why the fuck did Ben kill Locke, Ben's motives get further shrouded. Introducing these elements completely redeemed any sub-par writing.

That said,

"Locke convincing the O'6 to return: I have shown more determination looking for detergent at Target"

HA! Perfectly said. That sums up my main issue with the writing here. They tried to mock Locke's soft-sell approach with Abbadon saying he has to "step up his game", but I expect that Cuselof will unfortunately never give any explanation for Locke's lame attempts and lack of courage except something along the lines of "it all happens the way it's meant to."
We'll see.

memphish said...

While I agree Locke didn't try very hard, it demonstrates the problem of navigating between fate and free will. If everything that's supposed to happen will happen why do we have to do anything? And Locke as the chief disciple of fate would have to believe that the most. He goes through the motions, but then is prepared to do the one thing in his control take his own life.

Holli

Stephanie said...

Can you explain to me where the cameras where when Ben landed in Tunisia?

Tha Kid said...

If Lost was real, the last scene of that episode or first scene in the next episode would've been Locke grabbing the gun Cesar found and blasting Ben in the face.

People are finally realizing Ben is evil and Charles may not be.

I am not saying Charles is not evil, but how could you not see Ben is evil? I mean you may as well call yourself John Locke if you still think Ben is one of "the good guys."

Ben sat in the Dharma van, unleashed the poisonous gas and watched his dad die. Sick f^ck.

Ben was complicit in the purge of the people who brought him to the island.

Ben does not care about death of people on freighter or plane.

Ben's main emotions are jealousy, curiosity and selfishness. Often throwing temper tantrums. Equating him to a highly educated brat.

Charles Widmore on the other hand is responsible for both Desmond Hume and John Locke getting to the island.

In "Flashes..." I thought Charles was just telling Desmond what he needed to hear (ala Matrix) to get Desmond to the island.

C.W. helped Desmond and told him where Penny was in "The Constant."

Charles sent Faraday to the island.

Why would he send Faraday and co. to the island if his plan was to kill everyone on the island?

Why would he send Locke to the island and then send people to kill him?

The only thing that doesn't make sense is Eloise working with Ben. Is it possible Eloise doesn't know who Ben is?

We assume she's working against Widmore. I'll go back and watch, but did she ever mention him? Maybe she doesn't know who Ben is and Ben tricked her that Charles sent him to see her.

I don't know. Maybe there was a falling out.

I do agree Charles killing that dude by snapping his neck was kind of evil, unless you rationalize that Charles thought the safety of the Others was being compromised.

In conclusion, Charles Widmore may be evil, but Ben is for sure evil. Maybe it's actually a 3 way war with Ben, Charles, and John (the island).

The new Obi Won Neo Locke the White is pretty cool.

PalmerEldritch said...

Not there yet, I guess.

PalmerEldritch said...

Sorry, the cameras were not there yet when Ben landed in Tunisia.

Then CW (like that name, ThaKid) gets confronted by Ben and is all "Well, shit. Let's put some cameras on that exit spot."

Ben, even if he's working on the side of good, is evil.

memphish said...

I figured the CW put the cameras there after Ben disturbed his beddy-by time.

Brits, have you tried any of these?

Holli

t-dot kim said...

KABLAMMO!!!

Jordan from the 206 said...

Forgot to mention that Terry O'Quinn was awesome in this ep. Even if the writers gave him some stupid scenes.

Stephanie said...

I'm tired of all this moral ambiguity.

Tha Kid said...

Last thing, re Walt.

Locke not telling Walt Michael is dead is not evil or weird. Locke does not know Michael is dead. Locke and co. thought Jin was dead. Jin was on the freighter. Jin survived.

Why would anyone unnecessarily depress someone else? I guess he could've said "The freighter exploded, but some people survived. It's unclear if your father is alive or dead."

What would be the point in that?

As the viewers we know where Michael was when the freighter exploded, but Locke doesn't know.

Herlihy said...

Holli - I've tried them. Me and my housemates got them for a laugh...

I would describe them, but this man explains it so much better than i ever could.

PalmerEldritch said...

i have a distinct craving for some habanero chips!

Tha Kid said...

Prawn cocktail crisps rock! Fish & Chips doesn't sound that bad.

I always get a suitcase of crisps before returning to the states.

Jimmy said...

>>I'm tired of all this moral ambiguity.<<<

Stephanie,
I couldn't agree more with you!

memphish said...

Part of why Locke's "don't you care about those left behind" argument didn't work is that all the O6 know from prior Locke-xperience that Locke cares more about the Island than the people. What's to say that the O6 are sacrifices the Island is demanding of Locke?

As for the moral ambiguity and lack thereof, hey, that's life. Then again that's why people like fiction where things can be black and white, or light and dark.

Holli

t-dot kim said...

Hey peeps, not recording tonight...Aimee can't make it b/c of some more accident related stuff. We've moved it to tomorrow night at 6pm EST.

mb said...

">>I'm tired of all this moral ambiguity.<<<

Stephanie,
I couldn't agree more with you!"


Ironically (considering all the black/white metaphor on the show) I don't think this show is ever going to be about revealing what/who's good and evil. I think they are going to stay ambiguous re: the morality of the big story arcs and the characters. That's the vibe I've always gotten from Cuselof. If I had the time (or memory) I know I remember them saying something along the lines of 'one of the things that this show is about is how the morality of a person or thing or situation is rarely clear cut and easy to define.'

mb said...

No worries Kim!

Hope the insurance companies are easy to deal with Aimee - sorry you have to deal with it!

Tha Kid said...

I am working on a project and have Lost on in the background.

The scene with Kate and Locke makes no sense.

WTF is Kate talking about? Kate had the least reason to leave the island. She was a fugitive for killing her father. Her running from the law was the cause of several deaths (including her childhood ?sweetheart?)

If someone can make sense of what the fuck Kate was talking about please tell me.

Stephanie said...

Kate is saying she's happy because she loves Aaron. Locke is miserable because he doesn't have someone. I guess his someone is the island.

lauren_g34 said...

Kid,

I'm sorry but I can't help ya. I just could not get into this episode. And I've never said that before. Not even about "Stranger in a Strange Land." (I'm really gonna take some shit for that)

PalmerEldritch said...

yer lucky you stood up for bacon. ;)

mb said...

Listening to Jay and Jack

They are of the opinion that the reason Walt cuts his visit with Locke so short is because he knows/suspects Locke is lying.

Considering we know he becomes suspicious about the O6 lying, I suppose this is possible.

Ralph- said...

some drama of people looking for Jeremy Benthem would have been nice, and i wonder if walt goes to the island later on and tell Locke that his work isnt done yet (taller ghost walt).

There was really no drama as far as Locke traveling around the world, it seemed pretty easy for him to get from place to place. i know that Widmore and Ben were suposedly protecting him, but from who, cause i didnt see anyone.

Stephanie said...

I felt like if Walt is special enough to dream about Locke right before he visits then he's special enough to know his dad is dead. Maybe not.

Ralph- said...

walt just wants to go bang girls. also, does his backpack hold shotgun shells?

Jordan from the 206 said...

No offense to J&J, but they are trying way to hard to make something of a disappointing scene. Lot of the big time Lost fans seem to really have a hard time dealing with poor writing or unfulfing scenes. To the point where they do mental backflips to convince themselves that there is some greater meaning. Sadly the truth is the writers and Darlton aren't as infallible and insanely detail oriented as most mega-fans would like.

JoeSC said...

I watched the episode again, and while I still enjoyed it, I really noticed the sloppy writing this time around...

I'm actually kinda shocked that this episode was written by Damon and Carlton. Almost feels like it wasn't a complete episode, like it was a draft that was thrown together, but no one took the time to go back and correct the mistakes...

JoeSC said...

Jordan, I agree with you about Jay and Jack. It really feels like they're stretching with all of the crazy theories about scenes that will most likely end up having little to no importance...

Thank God for TLI!!!

Jordan from the 206 said...

Don't get me wrong. MAYBE something could possibly be the reason for that weird Walt scene. But until we see something, the odds are it was just a poor way of writing Walt out of the story. To me, not every little thing in this show means something substantial (cough*hurleybird*cough). I just sometimes get the feeling that some people are such ginormous fans of the show that they talk themselves out of noticing it's flaws and shortcomings.

Tha Kid, As for your question about what Kate was talking about. That was a weird scene for me. Not only did Kate just come off cold-hearted and bitchy. Her comments to Locke were very out of left field and random IMO. Her first comments are that she doesn't want to go back to the island. Then she follows that up with telling Locke that he doesn't get it because he has never loved somebody. This is interesting because the viewer can take her words multiple ways. When she first said it, I myself thought she was going to talk about how she loved Sawyer and how she hurts too much to revist that old wound. A more Jater-minded viewer may have thought she was talking about beign in love with Jack. Although this makes less sense to me, as her returning to the island would include Jack coming with her. Or as Steph said, it could've meant her talking about Aaron. Although I never considered this one and still don't really. When she said this first bit, I thought she was getting at Sawyer. But she then changed her tune and turned it on Locke. Telling him that he was just a sad lonely old man. And that he doesn't get it. So really, all I ultimately took from that comment was that she was a bitch. I'm still not sure. I don't think that scene came off too well. It seems like the writers were trying to make Kate say something (even if ambiguously), but it didn't take.

Ralph- said...

Jay and Jack get a bunch of emails from listeners if they mention that they dont like something. My guess is that they are trying to put a possitive spin on things, you also have to realize that they record the show right after lost ends, which gives them hardly any time to nit pick. I bet they change their tunes on Monday.

Tha Kid said...

Kate's an idiot.

Locke left the island, a place he's obsessed with. For all Kate knows, he didn't have to leave.

Locke is presenting himself as having returned to save the people on the island. So the rational person would think, "Wow, this guy left an island he's obsessed with in order to save these people? Things must really be bad. Let me at least listen to what he has to say."

Whatever, I've given up on this scene. I'm sure it was a writer flaw and not meant for us to analyze Kate's character.

As for Walt. I am confident he will be back as a central character. Keep in mind that Desmond is still off island.

There really isn't much story left. If you really think about it. The series could be finished this season if they decide to do the Ben/Widmore war thing as the finale this year.

For this reason, I think they are going to add a new central conflict before the season is over. Maybe something that the Lost Kids (Charlie Hume, Aaron, Ji Yun, maybe Walt will be grouped with them as their leader) will be involved in.

Stephanie said...

I can't believe the Jay and Jack listeners who were "blown away" by this episode. Come on. What happened that we didn't already have a really good idea about? Locke ended up the same place we saw Ben land. Widmore helping Locke. Ok, I give them that point. Locke pretended to be Jeremy Bentham. Locke went to the Oceanic 6. They all turned him down. He had to die. Ok, how he died was unexpected. But "blown away"? I don't see it.

Trevor McFur said...

I was really bugged by the Walt scene. One, Walt's story was one that I just was always very interested in for whatever reason, and it pisses me off that it's not made the cut as one that's not going to be finished, and the questions surrounding him are never going to be answered (sorry, Kid, but I would say that I'm about 99.9% sure that's the last we'll see of Walt ... really hope I'm wrong though). Second, just the fact that it was such a bizarre and poorly written scene.

Third, the fact that they're ending his story this way is a pretty strong argument for the 'making it up as we go along' camp. We all know that they threw a bunch of shit in the pot as they went along just for the sake of creating mysteries to answer in case the show went on forever (the Sheriff & the Others' justice system, probably the 4-toed statue, the Hurleybird, etc). And it doesn't really bother me too much that some of those plot threads were thrown by the wayside. But I always thought that Walt's story was really tied in with the whole central mythology of the show ... but I guess that it isn't. Just makes me wonder how much of the show's mythology is really planned out like they say, and how much is just the shit that happened to stick to the wall.

Trevor McFur said...

Goddamit, I'm starting to think like Jordan. Next thing you know I'll be ranting about Sean Penn.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Not that I am in the "blown away" category that the J&J listeners are (they always are, if you haven't yet noticed). But I def liked the ep better than you did Steph. Maybe it just comes down to expectations. I usually have zero, so I'm rarely that let down.

There really isn't much story left. If you really think about it. The series could be finished this season if they decide to do the Ben/Widmore war thing as the finale this year.

I dunno about that, Kid. We don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of the series. It's just that most fans viewed where we are approaching as what they had figured out to be the end of the series. But as is often the case with this show, the viewers don't know jack. Honestly, who knows what they have planned?

Herlihy said...

Re: Kate. I can totally understand where she's coming from... She spent 100 days on an island where everything kept going wrong for her and every singler chance she had to escape was thwarted by Locke, a man left the 815ers to go and live with the crazy native folk that kidnapped her and her friends. Also, Locke looked at her like something he'd trodden in when he found out what she did to become a fugitive in Left Behind. There was much disdain in his voice, almost disgust. Don't forget that a woman who died in Kate's arms was stabbed in the back in cold blood by this man. Is there really any wonder that this crazy old dude got no sympathy whatsoever from her, when he wanted her to go back to a place that she wanted to get away from so vehemently?

Oh. And Walt. I don't think this is the end of his story. There's no way that they'll leave the story with this. I think there was hints of it in his scene in this weeks episode "i had a dream about you... etc" Prophetic dreams? Just like Locke has had. Just like Ben said he had in Cabin Fever. Sorta like Widmore mentioned in The Shape Of Things To Come, "I started sleeping with a Whiskey bottle next to my bed when the dreams started" (or something like that, i'm paraphrasing). They all have one thing in common. Being the leader of The Others.

ramble ramble ramble

Herlihy said...

Then again... I could be totally wrong. Stranger things have happened.

...like Bai Ling and her really really weird nipples turning up in Phuket.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Trevor, It's ok. Soon the rest will see the light. ;)

But seriously, as far as unanswered questions or abandons plot lines are concerned. I could honestly care less about most of the stuff. The stuff that many of the Lost fanatics are so interested in. Things that vaugely fit into the mythology like four-toed statues or Adam & Eve. THINGS that were either briefly mentioned or seen, that have never factored into the storyline other than a vague reference or a quick image. The stuff that DOES in fact bother me though is when they abandon already established character plot-lines and stories. (IE: Walt, Libby, Rousseau, Alex, etc.) Sorry to the nerds who will die if they never find out why a bird randomly yelled Hurley. But who really gives a shit at the end of the day? But stuff about characters that you took the time to get into, that's just bad storytelling. And sloppy.

Trevor McFur said...

I think that's why I'm annoyed, I feel like I invested more than a little interest in Walt's story, and now I feel like I was kind of wasting my time.

Holder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tha Kid said...

Heriley - Good point re: Locke's convo with Kate when she was in Otherville the first time.

However, I didn't sense disgust in Locke's tone so much as disappointment.

With all that said, her comments were don't you care about anyone other than yourself? And clearly he did (as far as she knows).

Jordan - What I meant was that there is not enough story based on the conflict right now and the speed at which they are moving the story. So there needs to be a new central conflict. Thus suggesting Walt will play a role in this new conflict.

Most of the show has been getting off the island, then getting 06 back and now it's Ben v. Charles.

I actually felt the way most people feel about this week's episode last week.

The episodes could have condensed into one. I remember thinking the entire time while I was watching "Bentham" that if this was last week's episode I would really be pissed watching "316" this week. Everything was revealed in "Bentham."

The only thing is that if "Bentham" aired first, the Ben reveal at the end would've been a pretty big reveal. I called that the guy in the bed was Ben, but was it because I knew he came back with Jack and co?

Jordan From the 206 -
The four toed statue questions' answers would come in passing (not an episode devoted to it). Herliey bird IS stupid. I agree who gives a fuck.

Walt will for sure be back. Like Heriley, I agree that this scene was a tease and not an end to the story.

There should be something dealing with Libby. The Libby questions are the main ones I fear won't get answered.

Russo and Alex are basically the same story and although I didn't like the way they told Russo's story, I think her story is done. She may appear here and there.

I would ask for the life and death of Russo and Libby if I could request 2 stories.

Jordan from the 206 said...

All I really care about Rousseau and Alex is how did Ben get Alex. As for Libby, why the heck was she in the mental ward with Hurley. Walt, obvious. There's other similar loose ends for characters. Some that you want to know what the deal is more than others. But my point remains, I care more about the characters of the show than I do some mundane mythology that was vaguely brought up once in the past. The main reason is I'm more interested in the writers telling me a good story than I am getting a bunch of meaningless answers to small details that don't matter much in the large scheme of the show. Sometimes I think I'm in the minority of Lost fans. As it seems most are really hung up on getting answers to each and every little vague thing ever mentioned on the show. As for something like the four-toed statue. Would it be interesting to hear them try to explain it in passing? Sure. But if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal to me. Why? First off, because it wouldn't be taking away from anything. But mostly because a lot of the mysteries of the island IMHO were devised without answers quite yet in mind. Polar bear in the jungle, crazy smoke monster, pirate ship, talking bird, creepy statue, etc. Neat mysteries. Really make you go, "hmmmmm". But most fall into the category of "weird shit that doesn't make sense" that fits perfectl into the theme of the show, which is "creepy island that doesn't make sense". The writers can easily come up with plausible explanations down the road when they want to, nicely fitting old questions into the current storyline of the time. I know, I'm rambling. What I'm trying to say is, if I never get to find out what explanation the writers were able to come up with for something like the four-toed statue, I don't care. But dropped character storylines that you already started, LAME!

Terry_O_Locke said...

There's one more thing I want to know about Libby. Every single person who has ever been a main cast member was given a first and last name. Not Libby.

andrew. said...

- this episode would have been a LOT stronger if they hadn't revealed Locke's resurrection at the beginning. If they hadn't, we could have felt something for Locke's death. There would have been true shock that he'd met his end at Ben's hands. You could still believe that Locke would remain dead for the rest of the show (even if he became a Jedi ghost like Christian Shepherd). Instead it was just a curious detail.
- If you consider wednesdays episode by what it revealed in the larger story, apart from the execution of the scenes themselves, it's actually quite dramatic. It's funny that it was a Damon & Carlton episode, because i think they cheat a little. Other writers have to tap dance, focus on character interractions and whatever morsel they've been give to reveal, but D&C get to turn on the faucet with the mythology. In the past that meant that they got to raise a bunch of insane questions about the true mysteries of the show. Now that we're in answer mode, they're just unceremoniously dumping reveals. In outline form, "The Life & Death..." has a lot of interesting solutions to show mysteries, but the way they play out is less than inspired.
- I agree that the WAAAAAAALT! scene could go either way, as a brush-off for the character or a tease of a future return.
I'm inclined to think that's his goodbye. Instances of "special"ness can be addressed through other characters including Locke, Alpert, and the other children, and you can just infer that WAAAAAALT! was especially gifted.
- purgatory and nanobots.

Chris JC said...

Sorry for another long one this late in the thread.

I'm assuming the makers knew that most of the audience would figure out Locke would resurrect on island so didn't bother stringing it out, in the way that they have been doing so of late.

Although they still insisted on the slow tracking Jedi Hood reveal.

If it'd been shown in this form before 316, it would have completely revealed the method of island return.

What I've been meaning to say is that I had assumed that all people previously on-island had flashed out, which would have included the plane's pilot, leaving the co-pilot to bring the thing down safely (meaning that the co-pilot was the one who ran off), but the presence of Locke and Ben in with that lot would seem to suggest otherwise.

My thoughts about the new bunch echoed Jordan's in that I rather embarrassingly threw my arms up and said "hooray! More expendable characters!"

As for Sayid, I initially thought I saw him on the beach, but checking out screengrabs I see it's not him at all (unless it's a rubbish stand-in who is MEANT to be him but for some reason Naveen wasn't available) - See what you think. I'm talking about one of the two guys between Ilana and Cesar in this shot.

While I was working on the assumption that Frank has flashed out, I pretty much realised the plane would have to have crashed - not because of the lack of skill of the unseen co-pilot but because an aeroplane (sorry, America) arriving at its destination with tales of passengers and a pilot vanishing into thin air might be a bit too mental for LOST, where all the mental stuff takes place either on an island or as secretly as possible.

I was pretty impressed by the Locke accident - possibly the best I've seen on a TV show, including very good green screen interior shots. I don't know if anyone's taken a high speed car in the driver's side door (sorry Aimee) but it brought back some physically painful memories for me.

Surely best moment, and not really covered in this thread as far as I've seen, is Hurley immediately assuming that Locke is dead and has come to visit his odd little brain.

Also, nice to see one more of the "Many Moods of Ben" - the Sinister Accountant.

memphish said...

Happy Birthday Pre-Oklah-Aimee!

Holli

Chris JC said...

Another February birthday? Hooray - add that to RRB revealing his as Feb 15 earlier and it's one of the most populous birth months for the Blogspot. What was the other one, October?

PalmerEldritch said...

happy birthday, oklahaimee!

i like LOST.

PalmerEldritch said...

is Ben still obsessed with Juliet?

memphish said...

I think the reason Ben is obsessed with Juliet is that he's had a crush on her since Dharma days. Juilet looks just like her because she is in fact HER.

As for Locke killing Ben, I think if Juliet was there he'd be concerned with her opinion of him, but out of sight out of mind. Hey, maybe that's why Ben wants to get back. Time traveling booty call.

Holli

andrew. said...

- happily birthdate Aimee!

- i saw a headline for a MAJOR spoiler for LOST, luckily it was non-specific enough that i didn't get spoiled, but tread these internets cautiously.

- Holli - if Ben gets the hots for his Latin teacher, I'm really going to be annoyed. Time-fuckery should not be abused for goofy sitcom developments. Time-fuckery is a very serious matter with very serious consequences!

Stephanie said...

Maybe the agent still has Sayid detained in handcuffs somewhere.

Wait! I know! I know! He's in the polar bear cage.

PalmerEldritch said...

i still think that sayid and sun flashed with hurley, kate, and jack.

cant be wrong until next week at the earliest so i'm sticking to it... at least until next week. :)

mb said...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AIMEE!

"Juilet looks just like her because she is in fact HER"

Oooooh - nice one Holli! Hadn't thought of that. Juliet ends up teaching Latin or something and young Ben gets hot for teacher.

"Locke looked at her like something he'd trodden in when he found out what she did to become a fugitive in Left Behind...Is there really any wonder that this crazy old dude got no sympathy whatsoever from her"

That's a good point Herlihy. As much as Kate's behavior often bugs me, it isn't particularly far from realistic here. Regardless of whatever point she was trying to make to Locke, the jist of that scene was that she had no motivation/desire to go back (the island meant nothing but pain for her). So couple that with any resentment she would most likely have for Locke, and her "screw you" attitude makes a lot more sense to me.

As far as storylines and details getting left by the wayside, I agree that the Hurleybird is a throwaway and I'm astounded that there's actually anyone still asking about it. I think the 4-toed statue, the Black Rock and Adam & Eve are going to be referenced in S6 when we learn more about the further history of the island. I agree that many people may be expecting more than is realistic from the answers we'll get, but to be fair, they were all featured as pretty big mystery details before.

Getting the most enjoyment out of the last 20 or so episodes is going to require people (I include myself here) to pretty much throw away all previous expectations of what the series will end up being.

Herlihy said...

I don't think i've been as invested in the show as much as i am now. i'm loving this season so much. Totally reinvigorated about it.

Oh. Jordan from Scrubs has been cast in Cougar Town. That makes it a must watch show for me.

Jordan from the 206 said...

MB, I agree that a lot of those things will be addressed at some point. And that they intended to do so all along. This is just where you and I seem to keep butting heads, lol. I believe that many, if not most, of the mysteriously vague oddities encountered on the island were just that upon first thought from the writers. "Hey guy, lets think up a bunch of strange shit that doesn't make sense. Don't worry about explaining it now. We'll figure that out when the time comes. For now, we just need spooky shit for Spooky Shit Island." I know you adamantly disagree. So I won't go futher. But that line of thought is why it won't bother me if the don't get around to certain island "mysteries". But as I said earlier, wussing out on character plot-lines is just dumb.

Andrew, Thanks for the heads up about the potential spoilers. It's really hard to keep clean in this dirty interweb.

Actually, that leads me to something. Just a kind request to my friends on the blogspot. I know not everyone here wishes to be spoiler-free. That's totally cool. To each, his own. But if you are one of the spoiler lovers, just a small request. If you could be careful in your "theorizing" as to not accidentally slip out clues of things to come. Or heaven forbid if we got anybody who is using spoilers as their "theories". I don't think anyone would do that here. But I know people on lesser web-sites do. There's been more than a couple times this season were I've wondered. But it's all good. I think there is no reason the spoiler-free's and the spoileree's shouldn't be able to co-exist in perfect harmony. :)

memphish said...

So I shouldn't post my "even though they've claimed it isn't Purgatory, I hired prostitutes for Damon and Carlton and have discovered it is indeed Purgatory" theory?

Holli

memphish said...

Said theory confirmed by Jeff Jensen and Michael Ausiello I should add and Kristin from E!'s unborn baby who learned the secret because Damon whispered into Kristin's belly.

Holli

Herlihy said...

Jordan- I've not looked at spoilers in a long time. i only tend to look at casting things during the hiatus... and i never look at sites like spoilerfix. so don't worry about me...

mb said...

Jordan -
I actually agree with you mostly (no head-butting - really - lol) - that they DIDN'T have things mapped out in detail, nor did they know how exactly they were going to bring those major items back into the storyline.
I do think there is a general backstory to the island that was laid out by JJ Abrams and Cuselof and included those 3 details - just like George Lucas (NOT likening Lost to his brand of back-storytelling - UGH) knew before he wrote the original trilogy that there was an Old Republic, Obi-Wan kicked Anakin's butt in a saber duel, Anakin turned into Vader...etc. A very BASIC storyline that could be told in a few paragraphs maybe, and that had a few details, but was by no means an outline.

And I definitely don't think we're going to get an episode out of any of those things or details to the degree we've gotten about the Dharma Initiative for example, I imagine they might even just be mentioned in some speech by Alpert or someone talking about the island's history. It would be a boring way to do it, but if they're running out of time - that might be all we get.

mb said...

OH - and re: spoilers -
I realized after what Jordan said that I should reassure everyone that my comment about getting details on the statue, Black Rock, and Adam/Eve in S6 was based on NO spoilers - just an assumption on my part.
I am VERY careful on this board and as far as memory serves, I've never let a spoiler slip.

/(begin a torrent of posts quoting any and all f-ups by yours truly
- joke ;))

andrew. said...

- The spoiler was on Aint-It-Cool-News. just thought i should add that

- I have a crazy theory for anybody catching up on the show who are still in season 2. Henry Gaile can summon the smoke monster and he kills Locke with an extension cord! I don't know where I get these ideas, they just pop into my head, through my eye holes.

- so people are starting to theorize that Christian Shepherd did indeed come back to life, just like Locke, and it was the real deal, not a Jedi ghost that Jack saw running around in his white Reeboks. There are several scenes that are problematic for that including: Christian showing up in Jack's hospital, Christian showing up on the freighter to tell Michael he's done and Christian showing up in the pre-Orchid donkey-wheel pit.

- Anybody seen any good movies? Are people still looking forward to Watchmen?

Jordan from the 206 said...

MB, I don't think you've ever said anything that's made me question your spoiler integrity. No need to worry, my man.

Terry_O_Locke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

I'm still looking forward to Watchmen and I'm ignoring the reviews. I hope I'm going to get to see it next Friday when it opens on a giant screen, but that's the day our Spring Break starts, so I'll have to use my mothering super powers in terms of balancing kid's schedule, dogs' schedule, husband's schedule and my selfish desire to see the movie that day.

As for resurrected Christian, what's to say he's not like Walt, appearing where he shouldn't. For all he knows Locke also has that power, but is too stupid to know it. It's not like Locke has much info. to go on.

Holli

Tha Kid said...

Spoiler free since 93.

Tha Kid said...

I don't watch clips from next week's episode at the end of the episodes and I even purposely start Lost late so I can fast forward the previously on Lost so as not to have hints about what the episode will be dealing with.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Good question Terry O'Locke.

JoeSC said...

I think they said yesterday they were going to try and do it at 6pm tonight, but I haven't heard anything else.

Stephanie said...

I'm not the guilty party. Other than hearing that maybe someone would die and then Charlotte did, I know nothing. Except maybe a rumor I read about an actor that I'm not too concerned with.

I'm going to be in Nashville tomorrow, Holli. Do you know of anything I need to see? Maybe some "family friendly" establishments?

mb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mb said...

back from lunch....

(eyes fluttering closed)

Lumberjack (double) burger w/bacon. I go sleepy now....(i wish)

Holder said...

Did anyone think that might be Ray standing with his back to the camera on the beach when Locke is sitting down wearing his Snuggie? If you want to check out the link, Chris JC posted it at 3:08am.

JoeSC said...

I was really interested to find that the opening scene of this episode was originally supposed to be the opening scene of the season premier "Because You Left"... So this begs to ask the question... Did you think the Pierre Chang scene was a better season opener or would this scene have blown that away? I'm still sticking with Pierre Chang and his asshole-ish ways.

Chris JC said...

It would have been interesting, but then waiting weeks for more info might have irritated.

I think now, with a new bunch of crash survivors, it's gonna feel like it would if we had watched a load of seasons of a TV show about The Others and their crazy island adventures and then 815 had crashed and we just wanted them all to die as soon as possible.

TLI girl said...

TLI is recording on ustream.tv

TLI girl said...

We need ppl to tell us when the audio/video is working :(

Holder said...

I can see and hear Aimee but for whatever reason I can't see or hear Kim. The chat area says ioError...reconnect...please wait...

Anyone else having this issue?

Jordan from the 206 said...

Turn up the audio on the player.

Holder said...

Yeah, I did that...when I reload the page, I can hear Kim for like 5 seconds and then after that her voice is gone. And I'm still getting that error message. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. Maybe it's a problem with my Mac.

Meal plan=Racism.

Tha Kid said...

Holder. I had the same problem (on PC). I had to turn off peer guardian for the chat to work. Maybe you have a similar issue.

Chris JC said...

Great to see Ralph- in the USTREAM chat.

Sorry about the third degree, Ralph, but it could easily be any old fucker show up pretending to be you.

Herlihy said...

"but it could easily be any old fucker show up pretending to be you."

just like Jordan turned up and said he was "Marcus From Brazil".

Arnold Del Facto said...

give it up for americas formost brother/sister podcasting team!

Ralph- said...

i will create a sign in.

Chris JC said...

Sign-in?

Arnold Del Facto said...

some good ole CJR'croft talk from way back on da SASblog

Ralph- said...

for u-stream

Mr. Bill said...

That is some funny stuff Arnold!

I had no idea how far back the Ravensfeud went.

That was pre Lars right?

JoeSC said...

Sorry Kim and Aimee... I held on as long as I could, but my computer crapped out on me. Hopefully I can catch you next time!

alex said...

"Wesh said...

More arguing on MYOKOMWSAS!! That was freaking great!! :)
Musolini moments for the win!"

:)

Ralph- said...

Mr. Bill, the dharmalars carried that over from the SAS show and we had good reason, too.

Mr. Bill said...

Oh, I see. Now that I've gotten my hands on the old episodes of the SAS show I guess I'll hear it.

I didn't start coming here till I found you guys' podcast. So I missed out on the whole SAS thing.

Terry_O_Locke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Terry_O_Locke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Herlihy said...

can we have a new thread please?

Ralph- said...

Listening to the show live, you can really appreciate how tight Kimberley makes the show when it gets posted. i had no idea how loosey goosey the show was recorded. it was super lax.

you want a new thread?

WELL HERE IT COMES!

Jordan from the 206 said...

How true Ralph. Totally agree. Maybe people seeing them record live might give them an idea why it sometimes takes a while to get the podcast out. A lot of podcasts just hit record and upload. But Kim does a lot of editing in comparison. And I'm sure it's not a lot of fun.

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