Tuesday, February 03, 2009

(NO SPOILERS) Pre-Episode discussion: The Little Prince

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80 comments:

Ralph- said...

a safe place for me to post! I hope that we finally find out the Mrs. Hawking is Daniel's Mom and that Jin is alive, cause seriously they aren't fooling me whatsoever!

PalmerEldritch said...

what if Jin is alive AND is Daniel's mother?

Ralph- said...

two birds, one stone. i like your line of thinking!

Jin Hawking = Four Toed Smoke Monster!

PalmerEldritch said...

i'm hoping we find out who's sending those lawyers after kate. and i hope it's either Ben being a bitch, Sun being a bitch, Widmore being a bitch, or... MATTHEW ABADDON.


actually, it could be the magic of the island which gave Claire's family a hint about the whole situation.

PalmerEldritch said...

that's right. Jin Hawking indeed. after the freighter explosion, he needs massive plastic surgery to be put back together again. resulting in him looking like a little old lady.

and... he wasnt on 815 to deliver a watch in LA but to meet his son, Daniel Faraday.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh. and he loses a toe from the explosion. its all adding up. throw in some time travel and it all makes sense.

also, it would explain why he couldnt get Sun pregnant until he reached the Island.

Ralph- said...

I think that Michael should come back, only to get killed again.

What could "The Little Prince" be referring to? Is it like the kid from Temple of Doom?

PalmerEldritch said...

sounds like a pet name for someone's junk.

andrew. said...

but which 4 toed smoke monster will Kate choose?

Ralph- said...

the one with the biggest toe, cause it is better than having a coconut head or no shoulders

PalmerEldritch said...

well, i hope she finds her Mister Right cuz i dont think that the left four toed foot is good for her.

"Wanna see my little prince?"

Herlihy said...

In response to the other thread...

Kim - I'm 6" 8, i have my hair straight not curly, and i'm not a 61 year old kiwi actor who's most famous for playing an Australian...

Does that mean we can start dating? :D

Herlihy said...

I'm guessing you don't want a freakishly tall emo that lives 3000 miles away though... :(

oh well.

PalmerEldritch said...

another broken heart thanks to Kim and her RadioVoice. :(

t-dot kim said...

H, to quote you from the videocast last week..."she's not my type" I believe that referred to both Aimee and myself. Teeheehee

Kirk, I think I should bust out my french for the next podcast. Will that break more hearts? Doubtful.

Chris (from last thread) Hawking? not Hawkings? Really?

t-dot kim said...

KABLAMO!

Also...who's watching American Idol? I think I'm one of a select few.

Ralph- said...

"you all suck as judges!"

Hey Kim, when do you and aimee do the live shows? i want to watch them.

Herlihy said...

I can't believe that you actually remember that Kim... Not only have you just broken my heart... but you're embarrassing me now. Why are you so mean? :(

I always thought that she was called "Mrs. Hawkins" Oh well.

Herlihy said...

Oh, I just watched Heroes...again. My sentiments echo those from last night, although, the final scene was quite good. Lost does plane crashes better though.

t-dot kim said...

Thursday at 6pm (my time), which is 3pm your time. If we can't record we have a back up time on Saturdays at 2pm (my time).

What did you think of 3D Chuck? I couldn't find any 3D glasses in Toronto :( I've recorded it for when I can find a pair. "Charlie" was funny!!

PalmerEldritch said...

you mean it's not Mrs. Hoskins?



kim, oui.

which is also what the missing toe said all the way home.

t-dot kim said...

Sorry H--add it yo my list of bad qualities. Superficial, mean, and I guess you can add BIATCH!

/crying myself to sleep

Herlihy said...

Superficial, mean, biatch, hates short men, hates curly afros, doesn't like 61 year old kiwi actors who are famous for playing australians, doesn't get boobs out on live streaming, doesn't like men getting their junk out in front of her in public...

I can't think of anymore... but still, that's quite some list you've got there, Kim... bad times, bad times indeed.

Chris JC said...

Don't forget babies. Although in this context that's definitely for the best.

On the other thead, I wasn't denying Kim's highly agreeable feminine charms. It's just that I clearly like men - at least while online.

I've got the book The Little Prince, had it for ages, I suppose I could read it today but beyond the basic premise being character(s) stuck on a fantasy landmass, I'm not sure how much help it would be.

I now want Daniel to get it on with Jughead. That's right, I'm a Farajugger. The sex might be a bit corrosive and uncomfortable but the climax would be LITERALLY explosive.

t-dot kim said...

Oh ya, baby hater...how could I forget babies?

For some reason, I don't think Aaron is "The Little Prince" like Aimee thought last week. I was thinking and I get a feeling that it's Ben. I think he calls himself that b/c he thinks Jacob is King, therefore he's a prince. :P

I also hope that Jin will make a real time appearance. I don't think he's dead one bit. I also don't believe he's transformed into an older British Lady. But good theory

Jin Hawking indeed. after the freighter explosion, he needs massive plastic surgery to be put back together again. resulting in him looking like a little old lady.

Herlihy said...

who's waiting for the first scene of tonight's episode to be someone living a normal life off the island, while covering their face, only for that person to be revealed as Jin...?

Chris JC said...

Movie guy defends appalling outburst by high profile bankable star.

I can only assume Bale was also filming an intense, emotional scene in his hotel room a few days later.

memphish said...

I've read Saint-Exupery's The Little Prince a couple of times, even once in French, but it's been a long, long time. Aaron is the obvious choice, so I hope it's not him. And we've already seen Locke's anointment episode. It could be Jack. There's a big contingent out there that thinks Jack is the true leader of the Island.

If Palmer is right about Jin would should all do everything we can to get him into the writers' room for Season 6.

Holli

Stephanie said...

I'm hoping the writers are wanting us to think The Little Prince is Aaron but it turns out to be something completely different.
American Idol is pretty good this year. The new judge gives Simon a run for his money. She says everything the audience is thinking.- "How come you give that one a pass and the other one that is better, you lose patience with?"
Also, "Hollywood Week" is being done differently. Weeding them more quickly.
Anyone want to record with me?
Jordan?

Stephanie said...

The Little Prince

PalmerEldritch said...

holli, if ralph and i are completely wrong on Jin Hawking being the four toed smoke monster mother of Faraday, then we could at least write for Heroes.

/zing!

memphish said...

Oh, so that's what I've been missing eh Palmer?

Holli

Jordan from the 206 said...

Whoa. I missed a bit of a blogsplosion last night. Palmer was on a roll with the Jin/Mrs. Hawking(s) stuff.

Is there ANYBODY out there that actually thinks Jin is dead? I never did from the get go. Seems nobody does now.

I am not too proud (bascially for having no reason to be prideful) to admit I watch AI. Probably wouldn't without a DVR though. Not sure I would be able to put up with all the talking/personal interest stories/advertising, if not able to ff past them.

Feel like calling up one of your friends and telling them what you really think about them? Then how about using this handy dandy Christian Bale soundboard!

mb said...

Ralph -
you do know that no one talks spoilers here right? It's totally safe to post on the "spoiler" thread each week. But I understand you are super careful.

AND HOLY SH*T - Jorge really is wearing his Dharmalars in that Ace of Cakes pic. F-ing awesome.

Robert said...

There is another podcast, which shall remain nameless, full of Lost pseudo-intellectuals, who subscribe to the theory that Penny is not what she seems. They are ready to destroy the 'one true love affair' on this show based on bullshit, IMO.

Actually, I'm losing interest in most all podcasts except the ones represented on this blogspot. Man, I sound like I have a bug up my *ss, don't I? Just general frustration with the show I guess.

Robert

memphish said...

Glad I'm avoiding that podcast.

Jordan, I always thought he was dead because the lengths they are going to have to go to for him to be alive will have to be ridiculous. I mean surely they spent some time on Penny's Boat looking for the Island or freighter survivors. We've seen the freighter was not in "the radius" of the Island, so I don't know how he'll be alive, and I feel it's going to be pretty cheap if he is.

Holli

andrew. said...

- maybe the time travelers will pick up an earlier iteration of Jin from the Losties camp and he'll somehow get sucked into jumps. It's farfetched but somehow i like it more than him somehow surviving a huge explosion and being adrift at sea.

Chris JC said...

They might find that hard to reconcile with their "if it didn't happen, it can't happen" policy.

Which - by the way - is the actual reason Locke didn't shoot "Jones".

Jordan from the 206 said...

I agree that nothing from a logical standpoint points to Jin being alive. But from a storytelling standpoint, there hasn't been one thing to tell me that he is in fact dead. Not only did his "death" scene not come off all that impactful. But everything they did beyond that (Sun visiting his grave, etc) came off as them trying to get the viewer to believe that he is in fact dead. Also, whenever Sun talks about Jin in the future, it seems like the writers are really trying to sell it. Mostly, I don't think he's dead because we never got a gut-wrenching and emotional "JIN IS REALLY DEAD" moment. We just got a "oh crap! but wait, that could go either way" cliffhanger.

Don't listen to the podcast you're talking about Mr. Bill. But I'm wondering myself if there isn't something to Penny that we aren't seeing. She seemed very strange at times in the latest ep. WTF was up with her getting all cold during Desmond's story to their kid. "But he also broke my heart!" Doesn't seem like something someone in a lovey dovey perfect relationship just spouts off during a seemingly happy moment.

andrew. said...

- i don't buy any of Damon & Carlton or Faraday's rules about time travel. Frogurt & the red shirts didn't die in 1950 either, but that still happened.

- I could see Penny having some secrets, maybe a little more knowledge of her dad's true nature than she lets on, but i also understand her overwhelming dread of Desmond taking off again.

Chris JC said...

At the risk of descending into more tedious time travel talk - it's possible that Frogurt and the Reds could die at that point on their own personal timelines.

Anything could have happened to their bodies in the intervening fifty years - buried by our heroes later, removed by Others, washed out to sea etc (what would be amusing is the bodies are also travelling through time.).

Robert said...

Jordan, it was me, not Mr. Bill talking about the podcast. It's like listening to a roundtable of Washington "inside the Beltway" elites who actually have no idea what they are talking about. I laughed my ass off listening a couple nights ago. These people take themselves WAY too seriously.

Robert

andrew. said...

- Chris, would they still be born, grow up and fly on Oceanic 815?

PalmerEldritch said...

andrew., as i see it, they should be fine to die back in time (if you make the pretty big jump in logic that time travel can exist). unless you need to worry about souls or something metaphysical.

maybe Jin is dead. but will be hanging out in Jacob's cabin and speaking English. eek!

also, while The Little Prince was probably chosen as a title cuz it sounded cool and is probably in reference to Aaron, reading it thanks to Steph's link (ok, reading half of it so far) i could see how you could refer to Jacob as The Little Prince. which would be cooler than Aaron.

Robert said...

Does anyone really still care to find out who the hell Jacob is? I am soooooooooo over that mystery.

Robert

PalmerEldritch said...

he's the final cylon. ;)

Robert said...

Is anyone concerned that "Lie to Me" beat "Lost" in the ratings last week? We know they will produce the show to its conclusion, but you must admit, it is becoming too weird for many viewers. They can get me back, but it won't be easy as we have been told some tall tales by Cuse and Lindeloff about what they would and would not do with the show.

Robert

andrew. said...

- okay, i know nobody wants to get dragged back into time travel arguments, but that's what LOST is about now so....

- i just don't understand Faraday's argument that Jughead won't explode because the island is fine in 2004 but at the same time Frogurt & co. aren't dead in 2004 either.

- i also don't understand why it's not okay for Sawyer to meet Desmond in 2001 but it's perfectly okay for everyone to meet Widmore in 1954.

- i'm okay with these paradoxes existing, but i don't want to have to pretend that they don't.

Herlihy said...

probably a better choice that the real final cylon.

Robert said...

Andrew, that is exactly what I am concerned about. Either you are too dumb to even follow "Lost" in the first place or intelligent enough to have real issues with these inconsistencies that are becoming more and more obvious.

Excellent point.

Robert

memphish said...

I could live with Frogurt dying in his personal timeline until Andrew brought up meeting Widmore. Dang. More fuel to the you shouldn't have gone the time travel route fire.

As for Lie To Me, LOST is still winning in 18-49 year olds, and the 2 are very close in the ratings, less than a million people apart, so no, I'm not worried. What I am worried about is Life which returns tonight in the same time slot, and which no one was watching before and which will probably now die because no one will switch from LOST or Lie To Me to it and because the hot female cop is pregnant which will reduce her ability to be hot.

Holli

Robert said...

Sarah Sashi is pregnant. That does suck. I love "Life."

Robert

t-dot kim said...

Robert, I think "Lie To Me"s real ratings were inflated. "American Idol" runs into the 9pm hour...I believe it actually went to 9:03. 12+ million ppl were probably tuned to FOX watching the end of AI, not the beginning of Lie To Me. I don't buy that more ppl watched that show over "LOST"

just my opinion

Robert said...

Kim, you are probably right. I can't MAKE myself watch AI until like the final 20 or so. It's just too painful, like a car wreck or Josh Holloway's acting. :)

Robert

PalmerEldritch said...

it's a conceptual thing.

LOST time travel (besides Desmond) says that a time traveler wont change the past. this is because the timeline presupposes that they've already fucked with the timeline.

so, the timeline has always included Locke's time-fuckery by talking to Alpert. there is no "alternate timeline" where Locke didn't tell Alpert to visit him as a baby.

as such...

Faraday knows that the bomb wont go off cuz, in the future, the Island isn't radioactive from the bomb blowing up.

i think it's Modus Tollens (If A then B. Not B, therefore not A).

If the bomb went off in the past,
then the Island is radioactive in the present.

The Island is not radioactive in the present, therefore the bomb did not go off in the past.

same thing with

If Locke or Sawyer kills Young Widmore in the past, then Young Widmore will not grow up to be Old Widmore.

Young Widmore grew up to be Old Widmore, therefore Locke or Sawyer did not kill Young Widmore in the past.



now, how does Frogie-Poo end up dead in the past? that's fine cuz the timeline has already included a dead Frogie on the Island in 1954. Frogurt can still be born in the 60s and grow up to be boned by crashing on The Island. he just has to end up a LOST Island Time-Fucker and end up going to 1954 to die. which is easy cuz the timeline already says he did. :)

Robert said...

And now for something completely different, I will list my 5 hottest females currently on TV shows that I watch. :)

5. Evangeline Lilly
4. Yvonne Strahovski
3. Sarah Shahi (sorry about the earlier spelling)
2. Sarah Chalke
1.......Minka Kelly

PalmerEldritch said...

why can they meet Widdy Cent in the past? cuz the timeline already presupposes that they did.

there's nothing to say that our heroes didnt meet Widmore in the past. so, they can meet him.

they can't kill him though.

"If Locke or Sawyer kills Young Widmore in the past, then Young Widmore will not grow up to be Old Widmore.

Young Widmore grew up to be Old Widmore, therefore Locke or Sawyer did not kill Young Widmore in the past."

memphish said...

Wait, then why can't Sawyer meet Desmond at the Swan? That's what I don't get.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

"And now for something completely different, I will list my 5 hottest females currently on TV shows that I watch. :)"


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

/simpsons reference

PalmerEldritch said...

cuz Desmond didn't go "oh, hey. sawyer? yeah, you came in and borrowed a shirt and lived in the hatch for a few days" when he met everyone in 2004.


the desmond thing is a REALLY bad example though. cuz he's magic.

so, Dan, who Desmond never met and only talked to on the phone once in the present (Dec 24th, 2004) even though it was really Desmond's consciousness from 1996, could logically talk to Dan in the years between 1996 and 2003 and just not recognize his voice from the phone call in 2004 with Desmond's consciousness from 1996.

or something. like i said, Desmond is both magic and a REALLY bad example.



the idea being that Desmond DIDN'T meet Sawyer and give him a shirt. so, when Sawyer is back in time, he can't get a shirt from Desmond.

If Sawyer borrows Desmond's shirt in the past, then Desmond would recognize Sawyer when they met in 2004. Desmond did not recognize Sawyer when they met in 2004, therefore Sawyer didn't borrow Desmond's shirt in the past.

a better example would be time-hopping Sawyer can't run onto the beach and introduce himself in the middle of Jack's big beach speech. because if he had, then we'd've seen it in that episode. :)

PalmerEldritch said...

however, interestingly, time-hopping Sawyer could totally run into non-hopping Kate and just pretend that he was non-hopping Sawyer going off to take a piss in the woods. cuz there's nothing, that we know of, to say that Kate didn't run into Sawyer once in the woods and he had to go take a piss.

time travel is fun!

Chris JC said...

Frogurt can be born in the sixties, live until 2004/5, go back in time to 1954 and die and it's fine - that's what his life was. Him reaching the end of his life in his 30s/40s will not affect his birth.

It's different to Jughead because Jughead was already there in 1954, it hasn't come in with them. It won't explode between 1954 and 2004 because it hasn't. Okay, so the entire population hasn't died of radiation poisoning either which indicates that they do eventually neutralize it somehow (possibly underground).

HOWEVER - this doesn't mean that Jughead still couldn't go off. If someone digs it up after the events of the Donkey Wheel and the Exploding Freighter then, if it's still viable, they could still explode the bomb. All Faraday knows is that come 2004 the Island hasn't had a gigantic nuclear explosion.

Jughead could be buried, or it could even have been removed from the island, but it certainly hasn't gone off.

Trying to explain how those things aren't anything like each other is difficult - I'm not sure I managed it.

Mr. Bill said...

Have the writers forgotten the story line about the little kids from flight 815?

Emma and Zack

It seems that in my memory there was a big "Why are the others taking the kids" mystery involved in earlier seasons.
I don't really have a theory about it but I'm just curious to see what you guys think.

Kids=Time hopping with the 815ers
or
Kids=Back in the real world off island.
or
Kids=Story got too diluted to continue with.
or
Kids=Raised in the wild by polar bear family.

Pick one

andrew. said...

- Palmer, i get what you're saying. Interesting. I guess if you tried to shoot Widmore the gun would jam or the bullet would bounce off of his skull. The losties shouldn't have to worry about running into themselves either, even without trying.

PalmerEldritch said...

also, i really like the term "time-fuckery."

Robert said...

You guys are giving me a headache. Let's play easy questions like why Hollywood can't find American actors/actresses to play American parts? (See almost every good show on TV, Life, Chuck, Fringe, and on and on)

No time travel Robert

Robert said...

Isn't "mousy" just a spot on description of the young Ms. Hawking that Palmer uses as his avatar? Seriously, she could pass as a frickin' mouse.

Robert

mb said...

Alright - in the time it took me to think out this post, 2-3 other answers (plus response from Andrew) were already posted, but just because I can't shut-up about this time crap - allow me to add my 2-cents anyway

The way I am thinking about "the timeline" and all the time-travelling events unfolding on Lost (and I THINK this is what TPTB intended - not 100% sure), is kind of like they describe the entire narrative of the show - a puzzle where we are seeing a different piece at a time - which requires thinking of time (or the "timeline") as a pre-supposed WHOLE (mostly) - past, present and future all included. Watching them go back to 1954 means that we are seeing another piece of "the timeline", and watching Frogurt get killed is another piece.

I think most small, inconsequential day-to day events can play out in a number of ways because they aren't crucial events in the timeline, but something like Jughead exploding or Sawyer meeting Desmond can affect the timeline in such major ways that the universe, as Hawking said, course corrects in response to any attempt to change them.

re: Andrew's questions -

"- i just don't understand Faraday's argument that Jughead won't explode because the island is fine in 2004 but at the same time Frogurt & co. aren't dead in 2004 either."

Frogurt's personal timeline goes like this:
BORN --> LIVES --> GOES TO ISLAND --> TRAVELS BACK TO 1954 --> DIES

Jughead's timeline is:
ASSEMBLED BY HOT SWING SHIFT WOMEN WHILE HUSBANDS ARE IN THE ARMY ---> TAKEN TO ISLAND ---> HUNG FROM RICKETY-ASS TOWER ---> BURIED ON ISLAND (WE ASSUME)

Travelling to 1954 is part of Frogurts personal timeline/life, EXPLODING is not part of Jughead's (now, if Faraday had f*cked with Jughead and either made it explode or affected it in some way - the timeline would have severely changed and I would be calling shenanigans)

"- i also don't understand why it's not okay for Sawyer to meet Desmond in 2001 but it's perfectly okay for everyone to meet Widmore in 1954."

Locke & co. meeting Widmore is apparently already a crucial piece of the timeline as a whole and Sawyer meeting Desmond is not (thus the universe will ensure it doesn't happen).

Many more pieces of the puzzle yet to come

mb said...

Oh, and Robert - were you f-ing around when you asked about Jacob earlier? I am actually TOTALLY waiting to find out.

Jimmy said...

So when Tom visited Micheal off Island...he must have known the future. Because he was aware that Micheal couldn't kill himself. "Did the gun jam or did the bullet bounce off your head". They knew he would die on the freighter at a later date...and gave him the task, knowing the outcome.

Like I've been saying a while. Ben knows how all this turns out anyway... he's busy working really hard to make sure the outcome is what it is meant to be.

???

mb said...

quoting myself to make a correction:
"I think most small, inconsequential day-to day events can play out in a number of ways because they aren't crucial events in the timeline"

Now I'm thinking this is wrong - did Ms. Hawking say that the universe course corrects for EVERYTHING?

mb said...

I agree Jimmy.

What I wonder, is if there is something that could happen that the universe COULDN'T coruse correct for. Something too f-ed up. Is that what Hawking means when she says "God help us all" if Ben can't get the O6 back to the island?

PalmerEldritch said...

"So when Tom visited Micheal off Island...he must have known the future. Because he was aware that Micheal couldn't kill himself. "Did the gun jam or did the bullet bounce off your head"."

ack. that's definitely possible. ack.

but it could also just be "the magic" of the Island that was keeping Michael around so that he could die on the freighter and make Christian Shephard (and Jacob?) happy. or something.

but why would Jacob want everyone off the freighter? ack!!!

enjoy LOST tonight. it's a great excuse to overeat and hang out with good friends. it's also a great excuse to watch a damned fun show.

robert, anna torv apparently just married the guy who played (plays?) John Scott on Fringe. i realize he's a good looking guy but he's 45 and she's a good looking 30 year old woman. that dude is a hero.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh. and i prefer "logic dictates" you can't screw up the time with your time-fuckery as opposed to "the universe course corrects" but i can't argue with the LOST writers.

or they'd sic Smokey on me.

enjoy LOST, everybody. have fun!

mb said...

5.5 hours until Lost

I need West-East coast teleportation

Jimmy said...

My biggest concern at present is how the fuck did I miss Sarah Shahi
:P

memphish said...

For some excellent Sarah Shahi go to 1:40 into this episode.

Holli

andrew. said...

- i was really distracted by an aged Professor Jerry Hathaway (William Atherton) but i did notice Sarah Shahi.

andrew. said...

- Maybe dumbhanced "Jughead" will explain all of this time pardox stuff.

Robert said...

MB, I was not kidding about Jacob because I expect it to be a major disappointment/new point of confusion. Jimmy, you missed Sarah Shahi because she's just a small town Texas girl. They all look like her down here. :) :)

Robert