Sunday, May 23, 2010

The End: Post Episode Discussion

Go for it...

126 comments:

Trevor McFur said...

So is everybody here?

t-dot kim said...

I think ppl are still in shock

Confuised said...

Know I haven't posted in awhile but how the heck is everyone!!! Oh man am I going to miss Lost.

that being said :)

I feel a little bit cheated. I loved all the on island stuff BUT I've been listening to all the official podcasts and all their interviews and for 6 years they have promised it has nothing to do with purgatory. Now I know the Island wasn't purgatory but in the Final season to introduce a new story telling method and have that end up be purgatory is kinda bullshit IMO.

I loved all the island stuff. But the reveal for the flash sideways made me mad.

Trevor McFur said...

They said lots of stuff all along the way that turned out to be kind of untrue.

DenAss said...

Kim, like I said before. ur the shit. I hope you stay in the podcast community eye so your fans (like me) can keep up with you.

oh yeah, Lost. um ... wow. I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about that.

I totally appreciate the way they ended it, I'm just not sure how satisfying it is. I think I'm just a little in-shock that the whole thing is over now.

I kinda feel like a part of me died with them.

I'm grieving... it's a process.

Trevor McFur said...

I just wonder why certain folks weren't invited, like Miles, especially.

Mike Campbell said...

But didn't seem like they took an insane hard line on not purgatory. and it seems like they got away with a technicality. Maybe the episode was perfect and i'm too flawed to enjoy it 100%. I'm stuck with enjoying it 98%

Trevor McFur said...

I stopped listening to that thing a couple of years ago. Didn't they say just as hard that there wasn't any time travel?

Brad said...

yeah 50% awesome
50% not so much.
I do love Hurley and Ben running the Island.

I'm just going to pretend the entire flashsideways was in Jack's crazy little coconut head.

t-dot kim said...

I didn't think the "sideways flashes" were purgatory...but a place where these friends/family could meet before they moved on.

I don't quite know how to explain it.

I had to watch the final scene again...on the first watch I was pissed.

Brad said...

So does this mean Ben, Miles, Michael, Walt, Vincent, and Ana Lucia are all mopey ghosts since they didn't get to "move on"?

Trevor McFur said...

Purgatory is kind of supposed to be penance for your sins, and the FSW definitely wasn't that. And Christian said that it was something that they all created together.

Mike Campbell said...

Damn you semantics always messing with me. Wasn't Purgatory because Purgatory suggests people don't want to be there and they were in a happy place. same sorta thing.

I did like the concert scenes. I thought some of the ways people remembered felt a bit forced but some were great.

JoeSC said...

I think shock is a great way to describe it, but my initial thought is that I really loved it.

I'm not totally satisfied some of the on-island stuff, but I feel pretty good about the way they reconciled with the sideways.

Regardless of what Damon and Carlton said, I feel like they gave us an ending that is both semi-satisfying and totally maddening.

I don't think the debate on this one will die down any time soon.

Loved the final on-island scene.

Trevor McFur said...

I think that Ben, Richard, Rousseau, Friendly all have their own church. So does Miles, Faraday, etc. And probably even a happy afterlife would have been a bit awkward if AL and Michael were there.

Mike Campbell said...

Bring on the Zombie season since everyone is dead :)

t-dot kim said...

I loved Jack's final scene on The Island. LOVED it.

Trevor McFur said...

OMG, this was the zombie season, we just didn't know it.

Ben Cayne said...

beautiful ... just beautiful

Mike Campbell said...

oh man it was. They totally tricked us. Ok now I am ok with the ending.

DenAss said...

Trevor, did you say Al Michaels was there?

Joe, I like your summation of semi-satisfying and totally maddening.

JoeSC said...

LOST doesn't normally get me choked up, but the Charlie / Clarie, Sawyer / Juliet and Jack / Vincent scenes totally had me!

Giacchino is a genius.

memphish said...

Well I really liked it, but now I'm in a horrible mood because fucking WPTY ABC24 Memphis is airing a 2 1/2 Men rerun instead of Kimmel. So all my good will is out the fucking window. I'll be back tomorrow.

Purgatory -- who'd have guessed?

Holli

DenAss said...

For me the scene that moved me the most emotionally was the Charlie / Claire scene.

The scene that moved it the most, physically, was Kate in the little black dress.

memphish said...

And by Purgatory I don't mean Catholic rule laden Purgatory, just the way station before wherever they are moving next. I'm using it as a generic term.

Holli

JoeSC said...

I agree. I was never a huge Charlie & Claire guy, but I think Emile and Dominic did an incredible job with that scene! It just felt good.

DenAss said...

Holli, right. If you take it to mean the process that is required for the spirits of the dead to move on, then that is exactly what it was.

Now I'm talking myself out of liking this ending. I'm flip-flopping worse than Kate at the wrong end of the hypotenuse.

Brad said...

Kate did look really hot in the zombieflashes.
But how 'bout Bernard's Beard? That was the best!

mbk:
Bernard's Beard
Jack's Beard
Geronimo Jack's Beard

PalmerEldritch said...

ah-hem...

in a world of crazy coincidence, i called the FlashSideways universe in 2007. http://scottandsteve.blogspot.com/2007/06/tli-through-looking-glass.html and search for UBIK. which is a book about individuals creating a shared universe in their minds as they die.

;)




anyhow, i think a LOT of people will miss that only the FSW was an "afterlife" event. people will be confused that the whole thing was.

i think i liked it. i would have preferred that the FSW not end that way. but... i'm OK with it ending that way.

jack shephard only shep's hard. jack/ob was the man.

ricardus can age now? no ghostpidus? kate in that dress?????!? wowzahs!

and juliet! fantastic.

penny shows up to smile at jack awkwardly? booooo. at least we got to see her earlier.

miles has nikki and paolo's diamonds. frank has braidable chest hair. sawyer has a baby to take care of. claire has years of therapy. and ricardus becomes mayor of gotham.

ending would have been better served by less clunky dialogue between the shephards.

wait... the island really does have a cork?

and removing the island's buttplug makes smokey mortal again? sure. why not?

enjoyable episode and emotionally fulfilling/draining.

weirdest thing in the world tonight? the LOST finale was a clip show and it (mostly) worked.

t-dot kim said...

I'm a bit baffled by the ending. I still don't know if I'm totally OK with it...

DenAss said...

Ok, my local station is FINALLY showing Kimmel!

Trevor McFur said...

I never cared much about the Claire/Charlie relationship, but thought their reunion was incredible, and the most moving of the episode.

Also, my favorite line was Jin calling Sawyer, "Detective".

t-dot kim said...

So...having all our favourite Losties meet in that church before "moving on" was Hurley's plan?

As protector of The Light, those were his rules?

Well, that kinda makes sense.

Now I wish I'd seen how he and Ben came up with that plan.

Trevor McFur said...

So detonating the H-bomb didn't really work, unless that was what gave them the ability to create the FSW.

PalmerEldritch said...

say what, kim?

PalmerEldritch said...

h-bombs are overrated.

JoeSC said...

Trevor, that's how I'm taking it. When Christian said they all decided to create this "meeting place" that was his way of saying they did it when they detonated the bomb.

That may totally change as I think about it more and hear more opinions, but that was my initial thought.

t-dot kim said...

P, that's what I think...

I'm still trying to figure it out

Brad said...

Alert! Alert! tiny hat Faraday is wearing a tiny hat on Kimmel!

DenAss said...

Kimmel has a very "Survivor finale" type feel to it.

Kim, I don't think the church was all Hurley's idea. The whole FSW including the church was what they all created. Perhaps along the same lines as MIB "just knowing", maybe they all just knew what they had to do prior to moving on.

JoeSC said...

...and I must admit, while most of the discussion is probably going to revolve around the flash sideways, I just have to say that Jack and Locke's cliffside fight was pretty damn entertaining.

Amazing cinematography!

JoeSC said...

FINALE-BLAMO!

PalmerEldritch said...

oh. i thought they just created it as the island "was the most important time in their lives."

whats interesting is that, at some point, hurley dies. but is that 2000 years from now? does he have a flying car?

JoeSC said...

I just wonder how long Hurley, Ben and Desmond spent on that island together.

I'm sure that made for some memorable conversations!

Trevor McFur said...

I actually thought that the island tie-up was pretty satisfying too. I think that the real purpose of 'Across the Sea' was to give you time to prepare for crazy kooky fantasy-island type magic shit.

A little disappointed though that the 'real' Locke didn't have a chance to redeem himself.

memphish said...

I don't think the bomb had anything to do with the sideways world.

So my local ABC station isn't going to air the Kimmel until Saturday. I hope no one was stupid enough to buy ad time on it since no one will watch it. Anyone who cares will find it online well before then.

Holli

t-dot kim said...

They needed the H-bomb and all the other events that happened on the Island to happen for Hurley to become the protector of The Light...

W/o the Incident, Hurley wouldn't be the newest "Jacob"...Jacob/MiB would still be playing their game.

w/o the Incident, there wasn't the loop hole for MiB to make his move

PalmerEldritch said...

pretty sure that they got desmond the heck off the island and back to his family as quickly as possible. in his sailboat from Libby, The Elizabeth.

JoeSC said...

Totally forgot about the sailboat! Good call Palmer.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh! and since widmore is dead, they could go back to the UK and hang out. then, after widmore was declared legally dead years later (since there's no body), they got rich as all get out.

like Miles is from the diamonds.

Trevor McFur said...

Ugh, alternate endings look to be a joke.

t-dot kim said...

BOO! I was hoping they'd be real alternate endings

Kelly Jo said...

I like Lost.

DenAss said...

Damn! Kimmel is a total sausage-fest, save for Emilie. Who btw looks damn good, but why are her legs pink?!

t-dot kim said...

I think a 2nd viewing is in order

...and starting now.

Trevor McFur said...

Denass, we did get 2 hours of Kate in the black dress.

DenAss said...

true. and I do appreciate that.

also, I'm sorry but I LOVE the alt endings on Kimmel. They're exactly the kind of fare I thought I would get, and exactly what I need after the finale.

DenAss said...

Kim,

I'd love to have another viewing right now, but I have to be up to go to work before too long.

It will have to wait. But I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts after the re-watch.

JoeSC said...

Kim, you're such a trooper!

I'm taking tomorrow off, so I'm seriously considering a rewatch.

I'm dreading hearing some of the scathing feedback tomorrow, because I know it's coming.

Kyle from Kentucky said...

I enjoyed it.

I don't care about the flash sideways was purgatory. To me it made sense and worked.

The only things I didn't like:

-butthole plug a little bit corny.
-No Mr. Eko, no Walt I thought they just said on Kimmel that they couldn't end the series without showing him???
-I really would have loved to see Alvar Hanso or Gerald/Karen DeGroot.
-Kate chooses Jack. Boo. No not that big of a deal. I was just wrong.

The dog should win a Emmy for laying down beside Jack like that.

Hurley and Ben - awesome.

Jacks eye closes - awesome.

Jack dies in the same place and has the same cut - awesome.

Christian Shephard - love that guy.

I mean his name is Christian Shephard people. And now we know why..

They killed the smoke monster without him turning into smoke and they killed him too early in the episode. I really thought that when the plane was taking off that the smoke would grab the plane or something. No smokey in smokey form sucked.

The whole Desmond electromagnetism story arc was wrapped up great.

John Locke was redeemed. The guy was right you know. As proven in this episode.

I was hoping that Lockes realization moment would be of him feeling his toes wiggle and getting up of the ground just like in Walkabout but whatever still good.

Charlie and Claire stole the show.

Giving Charlotte dialogue in the finale annoyed me.

Giacchino is so fucking great. He gets me every time.

Did Bernard already know about Locke/Smokey? He sure acted like it. Maybe they were always in the know.

Good ending for Ben.

All the other little mysteries that they didn't have time to wrap up is bittersweet because it gives us something to talk about the rest of our lives but annoying because we'll never know. What happened to Annie? Walt?

I think that the biggest mistake they made with the flash sideways is that they didn't spend entire episodes like What Kate Does center around getting her to her "realization" point. Instead they waited until there were 5 episodes left and then rushed them all together. Would have been better if they were slowly getting their main characters to that point instead of all at once.

I wonder why Emerson left Kimmel early. Was he pissed about the false advertisement of alternate endings too? I was.

Best show ever. I'll never watch another show with 1/108th the amount of passion and interest as I did for this one.

JoeSC said...

Kyle - I'm glad you enjoyed it!

I think you hit on about 90% of the points I was going to.

The "answers" people are going to be severely pissed by this episode, but I think they gave nearly every character and appropriate and dignified ending.

I totally agree they killed off Locke too early. I kept waiting for him to pop up for one last time...

I admit I haven't watched Kimmel yet. I figured I'd enjoy it more after I wasn't so drained.

Give Vincent an Emmy!

Teej said...

Hmmmm, not sure... Sky One simulcast the episode over here in the UK, so i've been up since 0450 this morning. it's now finished, and i've just spent 10 minutes walking around in my pants saying "I still don't get it" over and over....

Hi everyone, btw...

The characters 'remembering' the whole thing was nice, cried a few times. And it was jolly nice of the writers to put Kate in a little black dress to remind me why I thought she was hot in the first place. But, i just don't know about the whole thing, i suppose i liked it, but i'm not sure i understand why...

(lots of '...' in that passage - i think that means i'm not altogether sure i liked it.)

Kyle from Kentucky said...

Just watched it again and theres a lot of ppl on other sites complaining. But I loved the last 10 minutes or so.

It's so great that the first line of the entire series and the last line of the entire series was said by the same person - Bark bark.

I never liked Sayid and Shannon together. And the fact that Juliet and Penny were in that church at the end shows you that it wasn't just the survivors of 815 that were ready to go together. Penny was never even on the island. So Nadia can't come? wtf?

Sayid and Nadia is the second best relationship of the show behind Des/Penny.

I've always been heavily on the side of skate getting together yet the ending of the relationship crap did not leave me angry at all. I wonder how diehard skaters are feeling right now.

Damon said on Kimmel friday that answers like Walt and others will be answered in another way ie a book or something. Can't wait to get my hands on that.

James said...

Hmmmm...I'm mixed. Not wowed. Parts I liked, parts not. It kind of ran out of steam for me...

mb said...

Can't really talk about it yet - too much to process and
Kimmel's on now.

Poetically - fucking gorgeous

narratively - takes some letting go :) but I'm liking it


I love all you nerds for giving me a place to come and unload my mental thoughts - will be back later

Jordan said...

WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING HURLEYBIRD?!!!

James said...

And the "New Sheriff"!

Jordan said...

For any non-regulars here who aren't in on my little joke. I don't give a shit about the hurleybird. ;)

Wow. How about that, eh? That sure was something. I wanted to give a brief reaction before I started on my word document (drank way too much caffeine to ensure I didn't fall asleep). I liked it. For the most part. Enjoyed it fully up until the last 5-10 min, which I really could've done without.

Oh, and it's NOT PURGATORY! Purgatory is a bad place where people suffer and are punished. There was nothing purgatory-esque about the flashsidewayverse. It was more heaven than purgatory. And if you want to get technical, it was more pre-heaven. Whatever the heck that is. The only reason people are calling it purgatory is due to the old theories about the island. If not for that, people would not be calling this that.

Anyway. Will be back with a bunch of words...

laughrey said...

I liked it and will probably love it upon rewatch. I was a little confused when Locke told Jack "He's not your son, Jack". I asked my wife, "Has Juliette met Sawyer yet?".

I'm glad Hurley wasn't left alone on the island.

The ending was fantastic.

I will miss Lost and the Lost Initiative

andrew. said...

Is this the talkback for tonight's Breaking Bad?

Trevor McFur said...

So if the whole thing was a construct, was everyone there outside of the Losties a figment, like David turned out to be? Like somehow Sayid needed to see Nadya with someone else and out of reach so that he could move on with Shannon.

Jordan said...

Ok, so here goes one final time. (inhale....exhale)

Like I said before, I highly enjoyed the episode. It was fun, sentimental, everything I wanted for the most part. And most of all, it focused on the characters first and foremost. And then they tried to explain things at the end, and I didn't dig it as much. But I'll get to that later.

I went into the episode wanting to get the emotional release and conclusion to these characters that we've been following for 6 seasons now. And I most definitely feel we got that. I will fully admit for welling up (not crying!) at just about every single one of the character reconnections/flashbacks. Even the couples that I didn't care too much for got me. Because they weren't just about the couple remembering each other. They were retrospective flashbacks on the entire series. Combo'd with the always amazing music of Michael Giacchino, holy crap. They could've probably done a Nikki and Paulo one and it would've felt emotional. Big time thumbs up to all that stuff. As well for the fun character intercrossings in the side-verse. Knowing that characters were about to put the pieces together was very entertaining. And Desmond putting all the pieces in play was just as fun as it was as in times past.

One thing with that though. This stuff ever since Dez started his plotting has been so much more entertaining that all the other side-verse stuff we got earlier on in the season. Whovever said that they would've liked more of it throughout the season, I totally agree. Not just the off-island story, but also the on-island stuff all felt a bit rushed the past 2 weeks. And the stuff from before now retrospectively feels kinda unimportant. I think it really would've been better to focus a bit more on the Dez plot earlier on.

As for the episode itself and in terms of how satisfied I am in terms of closure. I'm cool. Now don't get me wrong. There's a bucket load of stuff that doesn't make sense or really add up in the grand scheme of things. But I kinda came to grips with that a while back. I realized things had gotten too weird and overall of-course for it all to come back around. I think the people who were looking to get that from this episode are going to be a bit upset and feel let down. I already have read a couple people online who's reactions were basically, “I waited 6 years for that?” All I can say is if that's all they were watching for all this time. That they were watching the wrong show for the wrong reasons.

Jordan said...

I really don't think people should try to make too much grand scheme sense of things. Because if you think too hard about it all, you'll give yourself an aneurism. One could write a book about the dropped plot lines and narrative dead ends of this show. So many things just simply don't add up or never came of them. I really think you have to just look at it as a separate pieces. I don't see any way you can really look at the overall series and narrative and take it as one cohesive story. It just wasn't the case. And that's cool. It still mostly worked.

I talked about how much fun I had with all the characters for most of the episode. And then came the last 10 or so minutes. I kinda find myself wishing it had just ended after Jack and Kate were in the car together. And we saw Jack walk into the church and left it up to our imaginations. Now I know that would've infuriated most people and had a Sopranos-like reaction online. But I think I'd rather it than that heavy handed Jack-Christian conversation/info-dump. I can live with the explanation. Whatever. The side-verse was a sort of limbo (NOT PURGATORY) type existence. And that they had all previously died. I kinda saw it as something that exists after death. And that people who really matter to one another in a person's life find a way to find each other after the fact. Kinda like the message was 'death isn't the end'. Kinda weird, but ok. Prob would've preferred it left a bit more ambiguous than Christian's spelling it all out that they were dead. A hint of death I think would've been cooler.

memphish said...

I barely slept. Mostly I think it was because of my irritation re no Kimmel. I've seen it now and the fan questions afterwards which was amazingly stupid and pointless.

Kimmel seemed to think the issue of Walt is what the extra DVD finale footage will deal with.

So here's my final take -- I really enjoyed watching the episode. It was much lighter in tone than I ever imagined it would be. I enjoyed all the flash realizations and got teary many times. I liked the on Island ending. I'm totally okay with the Sideways world being a cosmic ways tation for the dead. In fact it's a much preferable answer for me than an alternate timeline. It explains why people often acted so unrealistically like Claire getting back in the cab with Kate.

I could nitpick a fair number of things in the episode like the Island plug and the Jack Matrix jump which was ridiculous, but I don't really want to pick at it. So I'm letting it go.

As for how I feel about the series as a whole, the series pulled back one layer too far for me. Using Jacob and MIB as the final layer that set everything in motion was, for me, a story that failed to hit. It didn't integrate with what we had seen at the inner layers in a satisfying way, especially the temple stuff. The connection or rather the mostly lack thereof between Jacob, MIB and The Others fell short for me. I would have been more satisfied with an ultimate showdown between Widmore and Ben with Jacob being more of a neutral mediator. And while I am satisfied with the "happy" endings shown in the Sideways world I could have lived without that too.

I respect that the creators absolutely have the right to tell the story they want to tell, and they did, but I also assert the right to like or not like what they choose to do. And for me, personally, S6 overall failed to connect with me on an emotional and intellectual level that was as satisfying as the previous 5 seasons.

I've loved talking with everyone here about all of this and will certainly be around. I look forward to the rest of your comments and to TLI and The Dharmalars.

Namaste,

Holli

Coccinellidae said...

I don't understand why everybody says the FSW is purgartory? Didn't Christian Shephard basically explain, that the FSW isn't bound by time? So there's no need to think that Kate, Sawyer and all the others that survived the island, and the ones that are still on it, died at the same time to appear in the church. Meaning Hurley and Ben still run the island, Chesty totally rode that thing and Miles is freaking rich (and probably has a "how to repair..." channel on youtube).
Only Jack "Your favorite matyr's matyr" died.

RIP Jack Shephard.

PS: That coffin was a crude joke, Desmond. Not cool, dude.

Jordan said...

Responses to comments from above:

Totally agree with Trevor. Across the Sea had to have been purposed as a primer for all the magical nonsense. Just think how we'd be responding to glowing holes and island corks had we not already embraced how goofy that all was?

Totally agree with the guys who commented on how foxy Kate looked in that dress. Way to go out on a high note, girl!

Nice call Palmer! Even more impressive that you were able to go back and find the comment. I'll also point out that I made a slightly more obvious correct prediction the other day when I called Jack's eye closing being the final shot. Although I'm sure I was one of a couple million to do so.

MB, you said, "narratively - takes some letting go”. You mean letting go of trying to make sense of things narratively, right? If so, welcome to the dark side. If not, what's wrong with you still! :P

Random thoughts:

Why was it that everyone else had their connection/epiphany moments and instantaneously 'got it'. Where as Jack kept sorta having them, but would run off confused? And then needed Christian to spell things out to him (the audience)? Is Jack really that thick?

Jack and Juliet sure forgot about their fake son fast.

I knew Lapidus wasn't dead!

Sawyer calling Smokey, 'Smokey' to his face was one of the highlights of the episode for me.

So much for Ben's return to the dark side, eh? The king of playing both sides sure did so smoothly. Went from being Smokey's lap dog straight back to teaming up with the gang. And his ultimate endings with Hurley on the island & Locke off of it just all the more enforced what I was saying the other day about his journey needing to feel earned and not some out of nowhere left hand turn.

Speaking of Ben. How the hell did he get out from under that supposedly immovable tree? One moment Sawyer and company couldn't budge it. The next he's on the cliff running about seemingly unscathed. I'm guessing whatever happened was in the stuff that was cut from the ep? Same for the appearance of Walt that Lindelof was teasing earlier?

So we had everyone from the main cast of season one, except Michael and Walt. Was Michael's soul still trapped on the island as one of the whispers?

- So exactly what the heck did Hurley and Ben do all their time on the island? I'm guessing they got Rose and Bernard to come out of hiding. But I'm not sure what fun they could all have. You'd think they'd get bored. Unless they decided to start passing Rose around, or got into some kinky group stuff. Maybe we'll get a spin-off with a new set of ship wrecked castaways? (Shhhh. Nobody mention that to ABC!)

memphish said...

I understood it as that in FSW everyone was dead, but no they didn't all die at the same time. But no matter when they died they met up in Sideways 2004 together before moving on to the next world. So Shannon died in real 2004. Jack in real 2007. Kate, et al could have lived into the 22nd century, it doesn't matter, because their 2004 selves all meet back up in FSW. That's why Aaron is an infant in the church.

Matthew Fox on Kimmel described the idea as the FSW being a place where you needed to remember your whole life and your death before you can move on to the next place. I don't know of any particular religion that espouses that notion, but as you could see from the imagery in the "church" basically every possible set of organized religious belief plus probably some made up ones were represented there.

Holli

Stephanie said...

Jellyman!

I'm 100% satisfied with the finale if only I don't allow myself to realize the happy endings are artificial. It's like the faux couple reunions were to make half the audience happy and Jack's ending were to appease the other half. Like I said, I'm trying not to focus on that. It ended perfectly for me. I almost can forget and forgive Across the Sea. Or I choose to forget it exists.

Jordan said...

Haha, Holli. Forgot about Jack's big leap. Reminded me of Matthew McConaughey in Reign of Fire. Too bad Smokey didn't eat him.

PalmerEldritch said...

"I could nitpick a fair number of things in the episode like the Island plug and the Jack Matrix jump which was ridiculous, but I don't really want to pick at it. So I'm letting it go."


love that last line in light of the FSW being about letting go.


yeah, i think Limbo is more appropriate than Purgatory.

and FSW was "outside of time" and Christian explained that some people died earlier than jack and some much, much later. but that their time on the Island was all uber important to them and stuff so when they died they gravitated to each other and created the FSW so they could all reconnect and let go.

Jordan said...

Yup Holli. That's pretty much the take I had on it. Some sort of pre-heaven type limbo-ish place. Not much more sense to make of it than that.

It's not purgatory cuz it wasn't some place they were sent to suffer. Purgatory initially came up because the island was such an insufferable miserable place and all the people had previous past transgressions in their flashbacks. Getting stuck in some fake world where most of them had pretty good lives is far from any sort of punishment.

The only remaining question I might possibly have is whether or not this meeting up thing was something special that they created? Or something that everyone experiences with those important in their lives. I'd guess that it's a common occurrence. The way Christian explained it was as if it was the way of the universe. I dunno.

Jordan said...

Now that it's all done and we can look back on the series as a whole. One gripe I have is the whole Jacob/MIB storyline as a whole. It really just seems like one giant retcon that they came up with a couple seasons back. Which is fine. A lot of storytelling is done that way. My main issue with it is that it really lessens the signficance of a lot of the early season stuff. Stuff that at the time seemed like a really big deal. And stuff that made the show so compelling and fascinating. All the Dharma Initiative, Others, Ben, Widmore stuff. It's all just blips on the radar in the grand scheme of Jacob and Smokey's eternal battle. I guess they wanted to come up with a big ultimate end game. Just too bad in retrospect that it seemingly dwarfed the previous seasons in significance.

Kyle from Kentucky said...

I just want to know why Nadia wasn't in the church with Sayid.

I also want to know if Mr. Eko is trapped with Michael, or something else entirely.

I'm still pissed at AAA for wasting the biggest and best job of his life because he was homesick. Sheesh. Eko is still one of the 5 best characters of this series.

PalmerEldritch said...

kudos to Ralph who...

PEGGED FSW AS HAPPENING AFTER SEASON 6. which is sort of correct. but sort of not cuz it was partially in season 1 cuz that's when boone died. but, mostly, RALPH WAS RIGHT!!!!!

PalmerEldritch said...

and how pissed must Bernard have been when he just finished cleaning the hut and the sky flashed and all of a sudden there was 30 years of debris in there and Rose was all "i thought i told you to clean that?"

poor guy.

PalmerEldritch said...

i'm eagerly awaiting the LOST spin off about Kate and Claire's off-Island slumber parties.

Kyle from Kentucky said...

did anybody else get on Kimmels website which had the 12 minutes or so of fan questions for the cast that was there?

The questions they asked were so bad I was embarassed.

PalmerEldritch said...

havent seen any kimmel yet. where they hurleybird questions?

Stephanie said...

Triple A turned down Lost.

JoeSC said...

Alright... so, I had a night to sleep on it and I still loved the Finale!

I've already seen the daggers flying this morning, and I can understand why some people may feel cheated, but these people who say they want the last 6 years of their life back had no business being LOST fans in the first place.

It will be nice to get some explanations / answers in some form later on, though. I don't think it's terribly important at this point, but I think there are a few outstanding mysteries that I'd like to hear a little more background on (as long as it's tastefully done).

PalmerEldritch said...

oh, AAA. you missed the LOST boat once again. way to go.

JoeSC said...

Yeah Palmer, AAA totally blew it. I can't think of how they could have best used him in the FSW, though.

In the final church scene where Jack is walking into the room with the coffin and we see all the religious symbols, I thought for a split-second we were gonna get to see Eko. Oh well...

I can't wait to see this supposed 20 minutes of bonus footage. I'm really interested to see what else they originally intended to be in this episode!

Trevor McFur said...

There's probably gonna be a lot of speculation as to where Eko was, but I figured it was something like that.

I had heard (foiler, I guess) that Walt was going to be in the finale, so I was surprised he wasn't there in some form.

JoeSC said...

I wonder if Walt is part of the 20 minutes that made the cutting room floor.

scrdmnkydst said...

I liked the end.

Should have realised ages ago what the final image of the series was going to be, what with Matthew Fox saying he knew what the last image was going to be for the past two years and the seasons 5 & 6 were going to mirror seasons 1 & 2 in numerous ways... oh well.

Kyle from Kentucky said...

Dammit AAA

If they actually filmed something with Malcom David Kelly then said they couldn't end the series without showing him I would be pretty damn surprised if he was in the deleted scenes. Damon and carlton knew damn well that Walt was the biggest question the fans had left.

I'm actually a little bit surprised that there was no scene filmed 3 years ago while MDK was still little. I believed in that rumor for 3 years.

The Surrey Monkey said...

Hi, it's been a long long time since I posted but after that episode I just had to. Having got up at 5am (uk) to watch the episode I'm just so glad I did. Just awesome - I haven't been moved by a tv show like that ever. My wife arrived home from work at 7:30 and asked "how was it?" but I was just too choked up to speak, I can't remember the last time I was moved to tears (so many times). A massive piece of television.

Can't wait to get home from work and watch it all over again.

memphish said...

I have to say the one thing I still really want to know is why Island Christian Shephard changed clothes in S4.

Holli

Teej said...

Hey Steph, missed you.

Stephanie said...

We've missed you, Jellyman. How've you been? Still with the gorgeous girlfriend? Why have you forsaken us for so long?

That obviously was not Madison.

clementinesdaddy said...

with...drawl...symptoms...setting...in

Now what do I do? Am I really supposed to working while I am here at work?

I loved the shoutouts to fans like "I'm a little disappointed, Jack. You seem to be the obvious choice, but I was expecting to be surprised.." (or something like that)

I am very glad that everything on island "happened."

A little less satisfied with the FSW world. It makes me feel like season 6 could have been about 5 episodes long and still told the same story (minus the happy ending)

So I guess from the writers' point of view, this is the better alternative. Who wants to see the six survivors on Ajira crying about how everyone else didn't make. Better to focus on how everyone is happy in "The End."

clementinesdaddy said...

So, Kim, are you upset with these less than subtle religious undertones to the finale?

And on a lighter note...

MBK:

old protector of the island, Jacob
interim protector of the island, Jack
new protector of the island, Hurley

t-dot kim said...

After the 2nd viewing...I'm much more appreciative of what happened. I was watching with "new eyes". I'm hoping the same will happen when I re-watch season 6.

I case you missed the end of JKL, there was a little promo for the S6 and Complete Series DVDs/Blu-Rays: August 24th.

If you watch one episode a day until then, you'll be caught up for a FULL re-watch :)

Jordan said...

Seeing as how I was waiting for Mr Eko all damn season, it's really annoying to read that AAA turned done a guest spot in the finale. But not surprising. Also really annoying reading that the writers originally wanted to have him around for four seasons as opposed to the one he did. I wonder what bad assery we missed out on.

And if any of you guys need more of a fix of AAA and you haven't checked out Oz, i highly recommend it. You'll get more than enough of him there. And pretty hard core, too. Also Michael is on it, and Juliet's dead husband too. Also Miles is in it for a bit. But not for kiddies!

I've decide not to read any general reaction online for the most part. Like with the Sopranos, I really feel that the casual fan and viewer doesn't have the proper connection/relationship with the show to fully get the ending. If you don't have the deep connections to the characters, and were simply waiting for answers or it all to make sense, you were watching the wrong show. And the more casual audience (ie - normal folks) who just checked in and out over the years was never going to be satisfied. Don't need to read a bunch of people who never really liked the show too much to begin with jump in on what they feel is an opportune time to get one final pot shot in. I'll stick with this blog and the 2 or so critics who's opinions I actually value.

Liz said...

I am really disappointed how the ending went all sappy. I wish that Jack would have attacked Flocke after lowering Desmond into the cave, Flocke killing Jack and throwing him off the waterfall cliff. Everyone thinks this is the tragic end with an appropriate music filled pause until..a white smoke monster comes barreling out of the cave. Awesome clash of epic badassery, and, just as the electromagnetism and H-bomb neutralized each other, good smokey and bad smokey wipe each other out and the island with it. KBLAM!

The moment the island winks out of existence, the characters in the alt have the epiphany of what went before, with all of the really beautiful poetic episodes, and get on with their (much improved) alt lives. Des would have still had to get everyone together in the alt, and even could have been left treading water after the island disappears (he's special), to be rescued by Penny. That's everyone's favorite love story anyway, right?

At least this type of scenario would have made us feel that all the island mystery finally built up to more something important and epic than a loose buttplug. I won't choose between characters and mythology...in my view the finale should have had both.

Gonna miss TLI. Thanks for the laughs and brainstorms.

elias said...

I don't really understand what just happened but think that they left it open-ended from the last Jack-on-the-island scene until the day the last of our character dies.

Happy that they left it somewhat open-ended but the end of the FSW was a bit on the nose - I know it's hard but they didn't manage to make it transcendant.

It has been quality viewing for the 5 and 1/2 years I have watched the show and has been enhanced by the 3 and 1/2 years reading youse peeps' comments here.

Brennan said...

http://bit.ly/a0tvAl

Drive Shaft and Geronimo Jackson coming to Rock Band Network.

andrew. said...

uh. muhfucking Ka-Blamo bitches!

Jordan said...

Woo hoo! We didn't screw it up on the final episode discussion thread of all time! Rock on blogspot. You've all been awesome over the years!

Tha Kid said...

Emerson left Kimmel (not Live) early to go to the Orpheum.

I loved the finale, but I too would have preferred if it didn't have the church scene at the end.

I don't know who wrote something about thinking, but that person was right. If you really think about it:

WTF was the point of LA X/the Heaven world?

Why was the Island under water in LA X?

Why was Jack bleeding in the Heaven world?

Why was Keamy in the Heaven world?

How could you die in the Heaven world?

What happened to the healing properties of the island?

Now that we've seen inside the cave, what the hell is up with the smoke monster?

I thought it was a result of coming in contact with the light, but neither Jack nor Desmond became a smoke creature.

On that note, how was going into the cave worse than death?

Was it just that "Mother" had trapped a demon of some kind down there which was released by Brother getting thrown in the cave?

On an Adam and Eve type note, who had been in the cave before? There was a skeleton there.

These are just a few questions off the top of my head.

Also, why the f would you want to leave the heaven world? I would've been like Ben and stayed to chill with Alex, etc.

All the characters had the perfect life, and we saw that you died in this heaven world, so why not live this life and then move to the next life? It didn't make sense.

In my mind, after Christian opened the doors of light thing Jack was like, "Aight, let's get outta here." And they all go to a BBQ at Hurley's house.

Stephanie said...

For a show built on analysis, I don't want to analyze the finale too much. Just taking for what it is.

Has anyone heard what the cast are doing now that they get to leave Hawaii? I know Foxie is "quitting tv" and DDK is staying for Hawaii 5-0. Hope it makes it. I'm afraid it'll get cancelled.

Trevor McFur said...

I don't think that Keamy, Mikhail, etc., were really in the SW world, not in the same way that the Losties were. I think that they were constructs, just like David.

Yeah, looking back, the island under the water was a deliberate attempt to throw us off, just like Jack demanding that they bring his father down in the S3 finale.

JoeSC said...

mb - Went back and listened to the first few spoiler segments from this season.

Holy fuck! I can't believe their was info on Happily Ever After already available before the premier even aired.

Every season it serves as a reminder why I avoided spoilers like the plague.

Nice work mb!

Jordan said...

Yeah. Everyone can now go back and listen to all of MB's old spoiler ep's. Was a somewhat thankless job considering most around here's stance on spoilers. Maybe now we can show him some love.

Speaking of things that don't make sense. What the heck was the point of Jughead? Why did they need to do that? Juliet said it worked? Why? Cuz she died? I don't really get it. But like Steph said, and I said before. It's better to just not try to make sense of things.

JoeSC said...

Jordan - I thought the same thing. I think Jughead was just a red herring. It did nothing more than catapult them back into 2007.

I was listening to Jen and Ryan's initial reaction podcast today and Ryan brought up a great point about Juliet.

When she said it worked, she almost immediately said the "we can go dutch" line. In the finale, she says "it worked" after Sawyer plugs the vending machine in and the candy falls.

So... Juliet saying "it worked" in the finale was her actually talking to FSW Sawyer and in no way a reference to the bomb.

I think that's a pretty plausible explanation.

Trevor McFur said...

I think that all Jughead did was send them back to the future like Marty McFly.

And 'It worked' was what Juliet said to Sawyer when the candy fell down. More tricksy Darlton...

Tha Kid said...

Jughead got them back to the present/2007.

I don't think it was a construct, etc. The reason is because we have evidence from the show that their lives prior to 815 were different. This means that basically they were born from age 0 in the Heaven World and lived up until the present we saw. The fact that it didn't matter when you died further suggests that this was another life of sorts.

Come to think of it, people died in the Heaven World, so why didn't Jack's dad die?

And if he didn't die, why was there a casket?

Did he die and then respawn?

Does this mean Keamy will respawn?

There is no logic, or at least rational logic, to the Heaven World. If I bought the series from Disney and decided to have them break out in a rendition of YMCA in the next scene, it would make as much sense as anything they'd already done in the Heaven World. That's why in my version they just go to Hurley's house to BBQ by the pool.

Jordan said...

Not to stop the great Lost talk. But I just watched this week's Breaking Bad. Holy crap, that was awesome. Minimalism at it's best. Damn. Can't believe what took place in that episode was so riviting. I know I'm only preaching to the choir at this point. But if you aren't in the choir and continue to avoid that show, what is wrong with you?!!

Ok, back to Lost!

Kyle from Kentucky said...

So Jack is the "one who will save us all"

Chris JC said...

Due to a series of mishaps, I still haven't seen LOST. I intended to see it last night on a day which had also seen me being let go from my job (a happier event than you might imagine) AND seeing my band's album come out for download, so if I HAD seen it, that would be one hell of a day.

BUT - I've been regularly coming here since some time around The Brig and I wanted to let you guys know how fun it's been, whatever happens to this place and us lot as a "community" in the future.

It also means that, if I click the box for email replies, I'll turn my email inbox into another place that I have to avoid spoilers in, which will keep me on my toes.

Posting this and not looking to the left has been very difficult, btw :)

Holder said...

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (or a big deal), but I know the "they're coming" from The Incident was pretty much confirmed in this episode as being Jack and company (from the 70s).

After Kate shoots Locke, Jack is standing over him and Locke says, "You're too late." Jack then proceeds to kick him over the cliff the same way MiB kicked Jacob into the fire.

The scenes were def parallels of each other...just thought it was cool.

Also, isn't the finale 10x better on the rewatch? Goodbye, Lost.

Derrick Bates said...

Any theories yet on why Ben was sitting outside the church? He seemed to be a central character in the sideways world but was not there at the end. So why? Didn't make it to heaven what with all the body count? Is he just a construct? Did they just want to give Emerson more screen time? Or maybe he's still alive on the island running things now that Hurley has passed on. What do you think?

Kelly Jo said...

Not Lost related but I needed to share this a girl in my 1st period class was just arguing that the earth was flat. Advice on what to do other than introduce her to a globe? Unleash Smokey possibly?

andrew. said...

show her footage of manned space flight

PalmerEldritch said...

what to do to prove to her the earth is a sphere?

nothing! it's much funnier this way.

Rrb said...

You have her watch 6 seasons of Lost(most episodes more then once). And she'll forget that there is an earth!
Thanks for all the fun reads and help with my dumb questions. Sad to see Lost end. I feal....bored.This must be why people turn to fan Fic.

Loved the Last Scene.

Much better memory for the end of a great show. All I remember from the M*A*S*H* Finale was Hawky in a row boat of severd limbs. way dark Vincent at least makes me smile:)