Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time... He has walked through a door in 1955 and come out another one in 1941...Billy is spastic in time, has no control over where he is going next.
Desmond is Billy Pilgrim. If they don't mention slaughterhouse five it doesn't matter, that book has to be on the list. What desmond is experiencing is the same as in the book.
Looks like i have to declair war on Casey. I loved that episode. They explained what he experiences maybe not how he does it because they would never explain everything. but i loved the episode, i thought they did a good job with what he is going through. Even the final destination stuff was good. That felt like a episode from the first season.
But casey is right about charlie. I hope he dies. But its Lost they might keep hold off on killing him. That would be sad.
For the record the episode charlie dies i will be throwing a party.
I wonder how far back this Charlie dying thing goes back. He should have died when ethan hung him. Maybe he should have gone face to tenticle thingy with the smoke monster instead of Eko.
mike i was with the episode all the way up until he got hit in the head. whe know what was going through his mind when he turned the key but we don't know what happened on the island. nothing progressed, nothing explained, we just know more about desmond and his similarities to marty mcfly.
what i dont get is, how does penny have the same pic as desmond? that was a polaroid, how are there 2 copies
Yeah, I don't think I'd lament Charlie becoming an ex-Charlie at this point. That guy's been pretty damn annoying lately.
So, looks like Desmond hasn't become un-stuck in time. Just has crazy psychic powers. Just like we already knew. I'm of two minds. We sure as hell didn't progress the story much or understand why he has the powers that he has. But we sure did get an entertaining episode. Good stuff.
also, i dont think charlie is dying this season, they are going to drag it on to the finale then he gets hurt and dies slowly much like boone but the death wont happen till season 4
that episode had me completely mesmerized. From that standpoint it was awesome. I'm having a lot of trouble applying the story to the larger Lost universe though.
- If Desmond hadn't been able to predict the future on the Island then I would suggest he had an "Incident At Owl Creek Bridge" sort of experience.
- as much as i liked the idea that he was having a "Slaughterhouse Five" sort of experience, he seems to be functioning far too linearly.
- I would be curious if the way he ended up dismissing Penelope in this timeline had any effect on her or the rest of the way his life played out. Did he join the military? Go to the brig? Did she wait for him?
- i like Dom, but Charlie is super annoying. halfway through the episode, when i thought Claire was on the chopping block, i thought Charlie might be salvageable if separated from her, but then i remembered how annoying his flashback storylines are. sorry charlie.
ugghh. this episode went down smooth but it's causing a lot of headaches.
That was different. It was a whole lotta flashback with a little non-flashback sprinkled on top.
I think I'm one of the only people who is gonna miss Charlie. I thought they could have done alot with his story but it seems like they forgot about him and Claire and just kept focusing on whether he was on drugs or not. I guess if I really miss him I could just throw in a copy of LOTR.
Can't wait for the podcast Craig and Ryan. Hahaha!!!
Hey guys I'm a long time listener to all things SAS but this is my frist time posting on this site. A few things about the episode: -Lately they've been showing the first flashback segment before the Lost logo and first commercial break. When that didn't happen tonight I said out loud "There probably won't be much flashback tonight." I guess they showed me. -I wasn't sure what to make of tonight's episode when it first ended. I thought, 'man after the first few minutes the rest of the island story progressed about 30 seconds.' Then I put more thought into it and realized tonight's episode was fucking amazing. Maybe the best one of the series. They weren't kidding when they said there was going to be a moment that split the Lost community in two seperating the true believers with the Jump The Shark accusers. I think this opens up a whole new world of oppertunity for the show and everything we thought we knew in the last 2 and a half years has been changed forever.
i think the placement of the episode was bad, if it was next week and next weeks was this weeks episode i might not have had much of a problem with it, i want them to finish up with the other island, tonight just prolonged it and gave me something that i could have waited to see.
If every episode for the rest of the season was on the same level as this one, Lost will make all of the critics who shit on them last season eat their words.
After a year Mike, and you can't remember my name? Did you fall off a ladder or get smacked with a cricket bat?
I know we go through phases where we want certain characters to die, but I really don't want ANYone to go. However, if I had to select one, Charlie is expendable.
If you look at timelines, Desmond turned the key (real time) prior to us (real time) seeing Penelope answer her phone call from the Antarctic chess players (real time). So wouldn't that technically mean Desmond didn't change that?
Regardless, if Desmond was destined to get to the island, then the same could be said for everything that everyone else is doing, including Penelope searching for him. So no matter what he did to her, she was always going to love him, and look for him, right?
Desmond should stick to the beard. He just looks weird clean shaven with that long hair.
Did Claire always have hair like that? She should grow her bangs out.
I'm definitely with Ralph on this one. Good 'Twilight Zoney' episode which was very enjoyable. Looks like this one was mainly an explain-and-setup episode though. It'll be interesting to see how long Desi's powers last and how long we're stuck hoping every scene will be Charlie's last. Unless he gets cool again. For a while, the dude was pretty cool.
Kim, I hope you enjoy it more after re-watching it. Either that or maybe we'll get to hear your angry radio voice this week. ;)
Great episode, but one that's bound to alienate many viewers who prefer easilly digested fare with uncomplicated answers. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the show continues its slide in viewing figures, evan as it gains critical aclaim.
And what did I say last thread about Desmondo being like Billy Pilgrim? I totally called it.
I'm not sure if Desmond is actually bouncing through time since that old lady with the crazy blue eyes was talking to him about the whole issue. But he's certainly perceiving some time bounce-age in his crazy visions.
So, do we think that Desmond and Penelope are destined to be together or not? The old lady sure seemed to think that they were destined to NOT be together. Poor Desmond.
Well, she insisted it was his destiny to go to the island, not necessarily to not be with Penelope. How it all works out in the end is still up for grabs.
Maybe not up for grabs, per se, but the road to your ultimate destiny may not always be what you want it to be.
Desmond may be destined to be with Penelope in the way he deserves to be - after he has become a great man - and the only way he can become a great man is going to come from something on that island.
I think that the Ring Lady knew that Desmond would ultimtly end up with Penolope in the end, but if she told him that, it would not have been a Leap of Faith on Desmond's part. That is one of the main themes in lost. If the role of the Ring Lady was played by Terry O'Quinn it would have made more sense.
It's temptation vs. doing what is right for the greater good. desmond will be rewarded, but only if it is his choice. If desmond knew that he could save the world as well as get Penny, than it would have been a no brainer for him. But by not being told that he will end up with penny, well, that is a decision that shows his true character.
does this make sense. i am still trying to wrap my head around some of the episode.
What new books do you have to read after last night's episode? And does Sawyer's stash of porno mags count? Cuz if so, you've got a lot of reading to do.
I think in the next charlie flashback Elijah Wood will guest star. They will be swimming under the bridge and find that ring that desmond threw in there. Then i am predicting a quest...
yeah des isn't totally "unstuck" in time because Billy would go all over the place and des seems much more linner. But Slaughter-House Five should be on the book list. I will do everything i can to make it happen.
Could they really kill off Charlie without making Evangeline Lilly a little upset?
The Powers That Be seem to see her, Jack, and Sawyer as the three leads. And since she is currently enjoying the hobbit-lovin', I'm beginning to think that Charlie is safe.
i can't decide about that episode! on the one hand it was crazy and unpredictable and sort of set everything spinning. On the other hand, it didn't really change much.
- the episode opened a terrible can of worms with Dharma and, perhaps, the others (it's becoming increasingly clear that they are 2 separate entitites). If the Valenzetti equation is about staving off the end of the world through probabilities, what if Dharma unlocked techniques to alter events in a manner similar to Desmond's time travel. What if they populated the world with people similar to the jeweler woman, who are stationed throughout time and who are guiding events to either safeguard or alter the future. This isn't where i want the show to go at all, but it's one avenue this episode opened up. - What if the Others/Mittelos/Hanzo/Widmore/Paik... appropriated this technique and are using for their own gain. What if they do things like cause people to get hit by buses or survive plane crashes, unlikely events unless carefully manipulated. What if your uterus continues to age despite you existing outside of the normal time stream... - uggh. this is not the sort of speculation i want to entertain with Lost. I'd much prefer that Desmond had an 'Incident At Owl Creek Bridge' experience and maybe even shook loose a little ESP. (What if Desmond's obsession with Dickens planted a Christmas Carol sort of delusion in his head when he got knocked for a loop by the failsafe.)
- i'm hoping we get to see a couple of episodes of Charlie narrowly escape deadly Rube Goldbergian scenarios. or not. See i can't decide about this episode!!!
Rather than an elite temporal agent sent by the Hanso Foundation to alter or preserve the timeline, I assume that the old lady was either some sort of manifestation of part of Desmond's psyche or maybe Fate.
Although, maybe it was the Smoke Munster (ack!).
I do feel a tad ridiculous having to use Occam's Razor to rationalize the driving force behind a fictitious Scotsman's super powers on an invisible portable Island. :)
i agree PalmerEldritch. I would really rather that the Desmond storyline be of little consequence to the larger story. That he simply got concussed, had a trip through dreamland, and that he's actually subconciously creating the circumstances that make him appear precognizant. Like he built a lightning rod so it got hit by lightning. He actually did hear Claire cry for help but might not have realized it consciously. He knows what a self-important windbag Locke is so he imagined him giving a big speech about saving Jack et all.
Of course, if that's the case, then a lot of Lost fans are going to cry foul.
Mike, at least you called me something that started with an A. I could call you something that's starts with an A, but last nights episode put me in too good of a mood.
I was theorizing big time last night as we were watching Desmond relive his past. I thought he was going to go along with it, dump Penelope, but tell her about what happens, therefore explaining to us why she knew to look for giant electromagnetic emissions. I thought that's what they were setting us up for when we were about 1/2 way through.
Andrew, I don't think it could be something as simple as a Dickensian knockout. Pardon the expression, but Desmond had to have legitimately time traveled.
There's no way, based on the crater of an ex-hatch we saw, could any level of suspension of disbelief (even one as high as 48 survivors from a plane crashing) be enough to explain him surviving an explosion like that, especially when he was at the epiccenter of it.
What I don't understand is, why wasn't he naked when he arrived in the past, if he was naked when he arrived back in the present?
I liked the ep, and have a few thoughts. Overall though, nothing answered, just more questions and a set up for a possible Charlie death. I doubt he will die though, as they have actually stated that he will.
Worst part of the episode:
Where's Eko? Pause... How did he die? Mumble, dither..."We found his body, buried him etc..." How did he die? The Island killed him? What? We have more important stuff to talk about....
This is up there with "Are you shagging my wife?" "Jack...let it go!"
Jimmy, I can see where your concerns are coming from, but I think the reason they did things this way were because of time constraints. There simply wasn't enough time in the one hour slot to explain all of that, plus tell Desmond's story.
Just like Kim & I discussed; they'd need a three hour show in order to present it in a way where we can't complain. And even then, we'd bitch that it's too long.
That would be great. Lost 3 hours. I would deal. is it official that they are doing a two hour finalle again? I know there was talk of it. Aimee do you know?
jimmy, that reminds me of the guy that wrote the official lost podcast with the dialogue for Paulo's off-screen death. it was awesome and also awesome that Damon & Carlton thought it was funny enough to share.
J.J. Is directing next week's episode of the Office and Joss Whedon Directs tonights. That should be kinda cool.
I thought they said JJ was going to direct the first Lost back from break. Aimee again i must turn to you, any rumblings of him directing an episode coming up?
Abrams said he was going to be more involved with season 3, but so far he has not signed onto directing any of the episodes that I'm aware of.
He did however, just get a deal to direct the big screen adaptation of Stephen "The King's" Dark Tower, which means once that ball starts rolling, Lost will once again be stuck in his back pocket.
Sorry fellas. I miss him too. But they're actually doing okay without the guy. Maybe season 4 will be the "going back to our roots" season" instead.
Charlie has had a few near death experiences the big one, the plane crash, then in the jungle he was hung to die--Jack and Kate saved him, he was trapped in the cave with Jack--the moth saved him, he would have overdosed on heroine--Locke saved him. Now Desmond saves his life twice! (There's also the song his brother wrote with some lyrics along the lines of "We can all be saved".) Something tells me Charlie has a bigger purpose if he keeps getting saved.
The episode has just made me even more confused about Desmond. Was he able to see the future from when he fainted whilst painting? or was he transported back in time by turning the key when The Swan imploded--therefore re-living everything? How does this explain that he knows Charlie is going to die? Did I miss something? Aimee, I still have to watch it at least 2 more times before our next podcast.
I think that there was a combo going on. He flicked the switch, and went back in time. But was only "hazy" about his knowledge...half a real flashback, half a real "visit" to his flashback.
Can I also add that I always laugh at the "scenes in England". Charlie walks down a street with his brother, and every other person walking past has a Union Jack on their t-shirt. A Union Jack or 3 hang from the windows of the shops...a couple of people have orange mohawks.
Desmond goes to the pub. The only pub in England with a Union Jack hanging on the wall. Anyone over 50 looks like they've stepped out of an Agatha Christie novel...people use cricket bats as weapons.
The way i see it, is that when he turned the key, he actually re-lived his life from the "on the floor, covered in paint" moment up to the hatch implosion (although the episode cut away when he was hit by the cricket bat, and jumped forward to the aftermarth of the hatch implosion). The flashing before his eyes thing continue to happen except now its future events. I don't know where the old lady fits into this. perhaps she was involved in the previous hatch incident?
Phew! I think many of the less hardcore lost fans are gonna be turned off by this episode. It could be a real watershed moment for the show.
In the Present, Desmond attacks Charlie and remembers...
Right after the implosion (the NearPast) how he had some vision where he was back in the WayBackPast. He is able to interact because it is either an interactive vision or he's actually in the WayBackPast. He gets hit in the head and ends up back in the NearPast. He stops remembering and we resume his throttling of Charlie in the Present.
He stops and then explains to Charlie how in the NearPast, he went to the WayBackPast, and then came back to the NearPast.
He also explains how he has visions of the NearFuture and that's how he knows to go and save Charlie in the Present.
Jimmy. i totally agree. "Hey penny, lets got for a stroll along the thames river bank. RIGHT by the houses of parliament." and everyone either sounds like dick van dyke doing "i'm a cockenney", or its full-on posh queens english stylie.
Shit. i actually just ate bangers and mash for tea (although i call it sausage and mash - "bangers" as a term for a food item just sounds ridiculous). maybe we english are just a bunch of raving stereotypes??
Jimmy, I thought you might be a little miffed by the cheeseball "hey look at us, we're in England..can't you tell?" scenery. I thought it was funny though. Quite convenient also, that there was all that scaffolding and construction to obstruct our view of Buckingham Palace and Big Ben.
my beef with this episode is that i dont think it was enough information to sustane a whole episode, the last minute or two when desmond explains what happened to him would have been just as sufficient as spending the whole episode leading you up to the very beginning of the same episode. I dont feel like there are more questions, they just didnt explain what we all thought they were going to explain which is what actually happened when the key was turned.
this episode is to me is the equivilant of further instructions to ralph
and I would also like to note that this episode isnt turning me off from lost, dont think of me as one of those fans, I just thought last night was poor storytelling.
I have a feeling we'll be seeing Desmond's Oracle lady again. She didn't pluck all that information from him out of the air. She had knowledge of Desmond in the way that Des had knowledge of Charlie, when he met the musician busking in the street. So, I deduce from this, that the Oracle lady will meet Desmond again in a future episode or episodes.
So is she on the Island, I wonder?
It strains the brain all this time-causality stuff.
I got flash-backs to Wizard of Oz with the whole red shoes sticking out thing. Maybe that dude was a witch, or it was just another nod to the Wizard story, which i'm sure they've done before...
There seemed to be a lot of red throughout the episode. The plot devices to tie our previous knowledge of Desmond together bothered me. The way the picture came to be, how he joined the military, I just couldn't buy it all. I just don't get why he suddenly broke it off with Penny out of the blue. There was nothing original about this story. It's been done a million times. The revelation that Charlie will die kinda helped save it in th end. Are the next episodes going to be Desmond following Charlie around saving his life all the time? I predict if Charlie does die, Kate will be next. Claire's bangs are distracting. We Americans must like to see the stereo-typical England or the writers think we're to stupid to recognize it. I thought we were going to be finished with Alcatraz Island.
We found out his full name last year in Live Together, Die Alone, when he was being released from prison, and the connection to the philosopher. The dude giving him his person effects said his name was Desmond David Hume.
I thought about the Wiz reference, but wrote it off as insignificant. I figured the Oracle was just pointing it out, so Desmond would notice him when the scaffolding collapsed. Otherwise Desmond wouldn't have put 2 + 2 together.
Derrick, I haven't watched the episode for the 2nd run yet, so I don't know WHAT i must have missed (twice apparently), but what MYOKOM w/SAS references are you talking about? The song playing?
With all the time travel references lately, I'm beginning to think Adam and Eve are Probably Desmondo and Penny. She finds him eventually and they live out their lives on the island.
jimmy, I just read my last post about the episode and am surprised that you were able to understand what I was talking about because it seemed like i was being very unclear...kind of like the episode itself im sorry if everyone got what i was saying the first time but i am trying to get my wording in a way were i can put this episode behind me and look forward to the next
this episode seemed too much like filler, and that bothers me when we are so early in the season with unresolved issues needing to be resolved.
...I want Desmond to rescue more people from the sea. Because...oh my. He may have just replaced Sawyer for me.
I loved this episode. My mother just sat there and went 'wtf?' while I just kept edging closer and closer to the telly getting more and more excited about what would happen next.
You got it Aimee-aroo -- I can't hear that opening music without thinking of a little SAS. Seriously, I started cracking up right there and then in the pub scene when I heard it the first time. Then to hear it again -- ahhhh haaaa Cusaloft, the hand is on the other foot now.
I think of my phone ringing when I hear that song now. But that's a whole other story. I have my cell programmed with personalized ringtones. Its programmed to play that song when any of the SaS folks call or text me. (Which is basically Ralph, Jimmy & Craig.)
I was on Skype with Kim when it rang once, and she's like "what's that?" and I had to explain it. It was Jimmy texting. It was funny.
I just had a vision of the future and your podcast about "Flashes Before Your Eyes" was terrific. I can't wait for you to record and post it so the rest of the audience can hear it, brotha!
Its pretty inevitable, when you put it on the same night as that jumped up kareoke show. I think they made it worse by putting on later, cause alot of people will tivo it, go to bed and watch it at a more convienient time.
maybe if they change the format of American Idol...I'd be interested again. Maybe actually have to make the contestants use their brains and do a singer/songwriter version where the people are emphasized to write their own material.
system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure....
Wow its been a busy day so far. Aimee were the ratings for lost bad? Because it was a great episode. Maybe people will come back next week.
What did people think of The Office. I loved it when Michael got pissed at Ryan the Noob. The last scene with Pam was kinda lame but it was good that michael ended up helping Pam instead of the other way around. I also liked the Vampire stuff with jim.
Vampire prank was great. i'm still in love with Karen post singing with scrantonicity, and the fact that she's helping out with the Dwight pranks just further sinks the Pam ship. They're already starting to make Roy a dick again. Michael's lecture was a page right out of the book of Gervais. It's a little harder to laugh at Michael since he seems to come from a more honest and sweet place. He's self-absorbed and attention hungry, but, unlike Gervais, he doesn't seem to be the type that would stab somebody in the back to get ahead. unless it's Tobey of course.
Mike, Lost was reeling in 20 million viewers in their season 1 glory days. Started dropping to the 16's I think in season 2. The ratings for Not in Portland were down to 14.5 million, even with all the promoting they did.
The early Neilsen estimates for Flashes Before Your Eyes was 12.8 million.
Hieronymus- Charlie's middle name on sign. I googled it. Found Bosch Hieronymus is a Dutch painter as well as it being the name of a pop rock band from Oxford, England. Anyone know the revelance of this?
Whoops! I haven't sent in my Nielson diary for that week yet. Let me get right on that.
I can't believe some of the shows that are ahead of LOST right now. It's barely hanging on to top 20 status. And somehow there are 30 million + fuckin lemmings parking their asses in front of AI twice a week. It's no wonder this country's goin' down the tubes. omg, did I just say goin' down the tubes? I'm turning into my father!@!#
OMG, Palmer. That remark about having names in high school Spanish class brought my life flashing before my eyes. I wish I could remember mine. I wish I could remember Spanish.
Or maybe they could do a podcast in Klingon, PalmerEldritch.
Hey, did anyone ever see the episode of Frasier where he gave a speech at his son's Hebrew school in Klingon, all the while thinking he was speaking Hebrew?
How's that for a diversion from our regularly scheduled topic?
137 comments:
I'm #2, not bad.
I've got a Guinness in one hand and the remote in the other. I'm think I'm all set.
That's different, don't know why it used my real name instead of my blogger name
prediction for the episode: desmond takes his shirt off and kate talks about getting jack back
and we will see jack in a cage
Jack's never been in a cage previously. The shark tank doesn't count, and the Lost Moments are technically in the future.
What if the Desmond flashback "difference" isn't a flash forward, but is something where he's actually changing it in some way?
aimee you are blowing my mind with the knowledge you be droppin
oh shit! one of my episode predictions came true! i guess desmond isnt the only one that can see the future
Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time... He has walked through a door in 1955 and come out another one in 1941...Billy is spastic in time, has no control over where he is going next.
Desmond is Billy Pilgrim. If they don't mention slaughterhouse five it doesn't matter, that book has to be on the list. What desmond is experiencing is the same as in the book.
hey lost, thanks for not progressing anything in the story or explaining what happened to desmond, way to be lame
i thought for once my heart wouldnt be broken on valentines day, but lost broke mine tonight.
at least charlie is going to die
HOLY CRAP BROTHER. that was the best episode this season. Aimee lets just say the book on the bed was a hard cover edition of Slaughter-House Five
Looks like i have to declair war on Casey. I loved that episode. They explained what he experiences maybe not how he does it because they would never explain everything. but i loved the episode, i thought they did a good job with what he is going through. Even the final destination stuff was good. That felt like a episode from the first season.
But casey is right about charlie. I hope he dies. But its Lost they might keep hold off on killing him. That would be sad.
For the record the episode charlie dies i will be throwing a party.
I wonder how far back this Charlie dying thing goes back. He should have died when ethan hung him. Maybe he should have gone face to tenticle thingy with the smoke monster instead of Eko.
mike i was with the episode all the way up until he got hit in the head. whe know what was going through his mind when he turned the key but we don't know what happened on the island. nothing progressed, nothing explained, we just know more about desmond and his similarities to marty mcfly.
what i dont get is, how does penny have the same pic as desmond? that was a polaroid, how are there 2 copies
Yeah, I don't think I'd lament Charlie becoming an ex-Charlie at this point. That guy's been pretty damn annoying lately.
So, looks like Desmond hasn't become un-stuck in time. Just has crazy psychic powers. Just like we already knew. I'm of two minds. We sure as hell didn't progress the story much or understand why he has the powers that he has. But we sure did get an entertaining episode. Good stuff.
it was entertaining i agree, but nothing happened.
also, i dont think charlie is dying this season, they are going to drag it on to the finale then he gets hurt and dies slowly much like boone but the death wont happen till season 4
Dude, you're crazy.
crazy like a fox
that episode had me completely mesmerized. From that standpoint it was awesome. I'm having a lot of trouble applying the story to the larger Lost universe though.
- If Desmond hadn't been able to predict the future on the Island then I would suggest he had an "Incident At Owl Creek Bridge" sort of experience.
- as much as i liked the idea that he was having a "Slaughterhouse Five" sort of experience, he seems to be functioning far too linearly.
- I would be curious if the way he ended up dismissing Penelope in this timeline had any effect on her or the rest of the way his life played out. Did he join the military? Go to the brig? Did she wait for him?
- i like Dom, but Charlie is super annoying. halfway through the episode, when i thought Claire was on the chopping block, i thought Charlie might be salvageable if separated from her, but then i remembered how annoying his flashback storylines are. sorry charlie.
ugghh. this episode went down smooth but it's causing a lot of headaches.
andrew.
That was different. It was a whole lotta flashback with a little non-flashback sprinkled on top.
I think I'm one of the only people who is gonna miss Charlie. I thought they could have done alot with his story but it seems like they forgot about him and Claire and just kept focusing on whether he was on drugs or not. I guess if I really miss him I could just throw in a copy of LOTR.
Can't wait for the podcast Craig and Ryan. Hahaha!!!
I'll miss the little junkie when he's gone.
Maybe we'll get lucky and Charlie will build up so much bad karma before he goes he'll take Paulo with him.
I'm betting on a two-fer
Hey guys I'm a long time listener to all things SAS but this is my frist time posting on this site.
A few things about the episode:
-Lately they've been showing the first flashback segment before the Lost logo and first commercial break. When that didn't happen tonight I said out loud "There probably won't be much flashback tonight." I guess they showed me.
-I wasn't sure what to make of tonight's episode when it first ended. I thought, 'man after the first few minutes the rest of the island story progressed about 30 seconds.' Then I put more thought into it and realized tonight's episode was fucking amazing. Maybe the best one of the series. They weren't kidding when they said there was going to be a moment that split the Lost community in two seperating the true believers with the Jump The Shark accusers. I think this opens up a whole new world of oppertunity for the show and everything we thought we knew in the last 2 and a half years has been changed forever.
Casey my heart was also broken this night...
I didn't care for it much after the first viewing--I'll probably have better things when I watch it again.
~K
PS> Hurley is funny when he's drunk. Dude.
thank you kim! some support over on this side
dont get me wrong i am download the episode and will most certainly watch it at least once more but i really didnt like it
The best Twilight Zone ever!
I loved the episode. i understand Casey's points. but i really really liked it.
congradulations Mike!
Jimmy, that Desmond theme was pretty apparent tonight. you hit the nail on the head!
i think the placement of the episode was bad, if it was next week and next weeks was this weeks episode i might not have had much of a problem with it, i want them to finish up with the other island, tonight just prolonged it and gave me something that i could have waited to see.
If every episode for the rest of the season was on the same level as this one, Lost will make all of the critics who shit on them last season eat their words.
After a year Mike, and you can't remember my name? Did you fall off a ladder or get smacked with a cricket bat?
I know we go through phases where we want certain characters to die, but I really don't want ANYone to go. However, if I had to select one, Charlie is expendable.
If you look at timelines, Desmond turned the key (real time) prior to us (real time) seeing Penelope answer her phone call from the Antarctic chess players (real time). So wouldn't that technically mean Desmond didn't change that?
Regardless, if Desmond was destined to get to the island, then the same could be said for everything that everyone else is doing, including Penelope searching for him. So no matter what he did to her, she was always going to love him, and look for him, right?
Desmond should stick to the beard. He just looks weird clean shaven with that long hair.
Did Claire always have hair like that? She should grow her bangs out.
I'm definitely with Ralph on this one. Good 'Twilight Zoney' episode which was very enjoyable. Looks like this one was mainly an explain-and-setup episode though. It'll be interesting to see how long Desi's powers last and how long we're stuck hoping every scene will be Charlie's last. Unless he gets cool again. For a while, the dude was pretty cool.
Kim, I hope you enjoy it more after re-watching it. Either that or maybe we'll get to hear your angry radio voice this week. ;)
Looking forward to this week's slew of Podcasts.
Great episode, but one that's bound to alienate many viewers who prefer easilly digested fare with uncomplicated answers. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the show continues its slide in viewing figures, evan as it gains critical aclaim.
And what did I say last thread about Desmondo being like Billy Pilgrim? I totally called it.
I'm not sure if Desmond is actually bouncing through time since that old lady with the crazy blue eyes was talking to him about the whole issue. But he's certainly perceiving some time bounce-age in his crazy visions.
So, do we think that Desmond and Penelope are destined to be together or not? The old lady sure seemed to think that they were destined to NOT be together. Poor Desmond.
Well, she insisted it was his destiny to go to the island, not necessarily to not be with Penelope. How it all works out in the end is still up for grabs.
Maybe not up for grabs, per se, but the road to your ultimate destiny may not always be what you want it to be.
Desmond may be destined to be with Penelope in the way he deserves to be - after he has become a great man - and the only way he can become a great man is going to come from something on that island.
Maybe. Hopefully.
Aimee:
Desmond with beard or Desmond with no beard?
I think that the Ring Lady knew that Desmond would ultimtly end up with Penolope in the end, but if she told him that, it would not have been a Leap of Faith on Desmond's part. That is one of the main themes in lost. If the role of the Ring Lady was played by Terry O'Quinn it would have made more sense.
It's temptation vs. doing what is right for the greater good. desmond will be rewarded, but only if it is his choice. If desmond knew that he could save the world as well as get Penny, than it would have been a no brainer for him. But by not being told that he will end up with penny, well, that is a decision that shows his true character.
does this make sense. i am still trying to wrap my head around some of the episode.
Sweet Zombie Jesus, Ralph. That The Price is Right name tag has imbued you with some serious LOST wisdom.
All hail The Barker.
Aimee:
What new books do you have to read after last night's episode? And does Sawyer's stash of porno mags count? Cuz if so, you've got a lot of reading to do.
Palmer, I've already read all of those porn magazines. For the articles.
I agree completely with Ralph. If Desmond plays by the rules, he'll find out that his destiny will be exactly what he wanted in the end.
The only book I've found out about so far was Laughter in the Dark by Vladimir Nabokov.
However I did just find out that in 3x07, you can see a copy of Carrie on Rachel's nightstand.
Desmond is beardalicious.
I think in the next charlie flashback Elijah Wood will guest star. They will be swimming under the bridge and find that ring that desmond threw in there. Then i am predicting a quest...
yeah des isn't totally "unstuck" in time because Billy would go all over the place and des seems much more linner. But Slaughter-House Five should be on the book list. I will do everything i can to make it happen.
aimee how did i forget your name?
Could they really kill off Charlie without making Evangeline Lilly a little upset?
The Powers That Be seem to see her, Jack, and Sawyer as the three leads. And since she is currently enjoying the hobbit-lovin', I'm beginning to think that Charlie is safe.
i can't decide about that episode! on the one hand it was crazy and unpredictable and sort of set everything spinning. On the other hand, it didn't really change much.
- the episode opened a terrible can of worms with Dharma and, perhaps, the others (it's becoming increasingly clear that they are 2 separate entitites). If the Valenzetti equation is about staving off the end of the world through probabilities, what if Dharma unlocked techniques to alter events in a manner similar to Desmond's time travel. What if they populated the world with people similar to the jeweler woman, who are stationed throughout time and who are guiding events to either safeguard or alter the future. This isn't where i want the show to go at all, but it's one avenue this episode opened up.
- What if the Others/Mittelos/Hanzo/Widmore/Paik... appropriated this technique and are using for their own gain. What if they do things like cause people to get hit by buses or survive plane crashes, unlikely events unless carefully manipulated. What if your uterus continues to age despite you existing outside of the normal time stream...
- uggh. this is not the sort of speculation i want to entertain with Lost. I'd much prefer that Desmond had an 'Incident At Owl Creek Bridge' experience and maybe even shook loose a little ESP. (What if Desmond's obsession with Dickens planted a Christmas Carol sort of delusion in his head when he got knocked for a loop by the failsafe.)
- i'm hoping we get to see a couple of episodes of Charlie narrowly escape deadly Rube Goldbergian scenarios. or not. See i can't decide about this episode!!!
- Cindy next week!
andrew.
I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy.
Rather than an elite temporal agent sent by the Hanso Foundation to alter or preserve the timeline, I assume that the old lady was either some sort of manifestation of part of Desmond's psyche or maybe Fate.
Although, maybe it was the Smoke Munster (ack!).
I do feel a tad ridiculous having to use Occam's Razor to rationalize the driving force behind a fictitious Scotsman's super powers on an invisible portable Island. :)
i agree PalmerEldritch.
I would really rather that the Desmond storyline be of little consequence to the larger story. That he simply got concussed, had a trip through dreamland, and that he's actually subconciously creating the circumstances that make him appear precognizant. Like he built a lightning rod so it got hit by lightning. He actually did hear Claire cry for help but might not have realized it consciously. He knows what a self-important windbag Locke is so he imagined him giving a big speech about saving Jack et all.
Of course, if that's the case, then a lot of Lost fans are going to cry foul.
andrew.
Mike, at least you called me something that started with an A. I could call you something that's starts with an A, but last nights episode put me in too good of a mood.
I was theorizing big time last night as we were watching Desmond relive his past. I thought he was going to go along with it, dump Penelope, but tell her about what happens, therefore explaining to us why she knew to look for giant electromagnetic emissions. I thought that's what they were setting us up for when we were about 1/2 way through.
Andrew, I don't think it could be something as simple as a Dickensian knockout. Pardon the expression, but Desmond had to have legitimately time traveled.
There's no way, based on the crater of an ex-hatch we saw, could any level of suspension of disbelief (even one as high as 48 survivors from a plane crashing) be enough to explain him surviving an explosion like that, especially when he was at the epiccenter of it.
What I don't understand is, why wasn't he naked when he arrived in the past, if he was naked when he arrived back in the present?
I liked the ep, and have a few thoughts. Overall though, nothing answered, just more questions and a set up for a possible Charlie death. I doubt he will die though, as they have actually stated that he will.
Worst part of the episode:
Where's Eko?
Pause...
How did he die?
Mumble, dither..."We found his body, buried him etc..."
How did he die?
The Island killed him?
What?
We have more important stuff to talk about....
This is up there with "Are you shagging my wife?"
"Jack...let it go!"
Damon needs a kick in the nuts for that!
Jimmy, I can see where your concerns are coming from, but I think the reason they did things this way were because of time constraints. There simply wasn't enough time in the one hour slot to explain all of that, plus tell Desmond's story.
Just like Kim & I discussed; they'd need a three hour show in order to present it in a way where we can't complain. And even then, we'd bitch that it's too long.
That would be great. Lost 3 hours. I would deal. is it official that they are doing a two hour finalle again? I know there was talk of it. Aimee do you know?
I believe the answer is yes. We have 14 more weeks, but 15 more hours, which should mean a 2-hour finale.
jimmy,
that reminds me of the guy that wrote the official lost podcast with the dialogue for Paulo's off-screen death. it was awesome and also awesome that Damon & Carlton thought it was funny enough to share.
andrew.
Very Nice. I love when shows are two hours.
J.J. Is directing next week's episode of the Office and Joss Whedon Directs tonights. That should be kinda cool.
I thought they said JJ was going to direct the first Lost back from break. Aimee again i must turn to you, any rumblings of him directing an episode coming up?
Abrams said he was going to be more involved with season 3, but so far he has not signed onto directing any of the episodes that I'm aware of.
He did however, just get a deal to direct the big screen adaptation of Stephen "The King's" Dark Tower, which means once that ball starts rolling, Lost will once again be stuck in his back pocket.
Sorry fellas. I miss him too. But they're actually doing okay without the guy. Maybe season 4 will be the "going back to our roots" season" instead.
Awesome ep.
Cue hilarious near-miss charlie moments for the next 14 weeks...
That old lady that des got the ring off of was also in the film "The Others". hehe.
Why Charlie...
Charlie has had a few near death experiences the big one, the plane crash, then in the jungle he was hung to die--Jack and Kate saved him, he was trapped in the cave with Jack--the moth saved him, he would have overdosed on heroine--Locke saved him. Now Desmond saves his life twice! (There's also the song his brother wrote with some lyrics along the lines of "We can all be saved".) Something tells me Charlie has a bigger purpose if he keeps getting saved.
The episode has just made me even more confused about Desmond. Was he able to see the future from when he fainted whilst painting? or was he transported back in time by turning the key when The Swan imploded--therefore re-living everything? How does this explain that he knows Charlie is going to die? Did I miss something? Aimee, I still have to watch it at least 2 more times before our next podcast.
~K
I always have to watch any episode at least 3 times in order to understand it, podcast or not. This one in particular though.
Kim,
I'm in the same boat.
I think that there was a combo going on. He flicked the switch, and went back in time. But was only "hazy" about his knowledge...half a real flashback, half a real "visit" to his flashback.
Can I also add that I always laugh at the "scenes in England".
Charlie walks down a street with his brother, and every other person walking past has a Union Jack on their t-shirt. A Union Jack or 3 hang from the windows of the shops...a couple of people have orange mohawks.
Desmond goes to the pub. The only pub in England with a Union Jack hanging on the wall. Anyone over 50 looks like they've stepped out of an Agatha Christie novel...people use cricket bats as weapons.
Oh fuck, I'm just raving on....
The way i see it, is that when he turned the key, he actually re-lived his life from the "on the floor, covered in paint" moment up to the hatch implosion (although the episode cut away when he was hit by the cricket bat, and jumped forward to the aftermarth of the hatch implosion). The flashing before his eyes thing continue to happen except now its future events.
I don't know where the old lady fits into this. perhaps she was involved in the previous hatch incident?
Phew!
I think many of the less hardcore lost fans are gonna be turned off by this episode. It could be a real watershed moment for the show.
Also, anyone with red shoes with a gray suit deserves scaffold falling on them...I thought that was a bit clumsily done.
Oh yes...I want to add that I liked this episode.
Datty Mike, I agree. I think it won't attract new viewers. But that's OK once in a while...
Ah-hem...
In the Present, Desmond attacks Charlie and remembers...
Right after the implosion (the NearPast) how he had some vision where he was back in the WayBackPast. He is able to interact because it is either an interactive vision or he's actually in the WayBackPast. He gets hit in the head and ends up back in the NearPast. He stops remembering and we resume his throttling of Charlie in the Present.
He stops and then explains to Charlie how in the NearPast, he went to the WayBackPast, and then came back to the NearPast.
He also explains how he has visions of the NearFuture and that's how he knows to go and save Charlie in the Present.
What could be simpler than that, Kim!? :p
/head asplodes
Jimmy. i totally agree.
"Hey penny, lets got for a stroll along the thames river bank. RIGHT by the houses of parliament."
and everyone either sounds like dick van dyke doing "i'm a cockenney", or its full-on posh queens english stylie.
Hey, at least they weren't watching Eastenders and eating Bangers and Mash with a side of Spotted Dick before going into a big doubledeck red bus.
Afterall, Desmond's a haggis man.
Shit. i actually just ate bangers and mash for tea (although i call it sausage and mash - "bangers" as a term for a food item just sounds ridiculous).
maybe we english are just a bunch of raving stereotypes??
Jimmy, I thought you might be a little miffed by the cheeseball "hey look at us, we're in England..can't you tell?" scenery. I thought it was funny though. Quite convenient also, that there was all that scaffolding and construction to obstruct our view of Buckingham Palace and Big Ben.
Palmer needs to write the new episode summaries for ABC. That was awesome.
Favorite part of the episode: huge shout out to MYOKOM w/ SAS not once but twice. Can't call that a coincident.
my beef with this episode is that i dont think it was enough information to sustane a whole episode, the last minute or two when desmond explains what happened to him would have been just as sufficient as spending the whole episode leading you up to the very beginning of the same episode. I dont feel like there are more questions, they just didnt explain what we all thought they were going to explain which is what actually happened when the key was turned.
this episode is to me is the equivilant of further instructions to ralph
and I would also like to note that this episode isnt turning me off from lost, dont think of me as one of those fans, I just thought last night was poor storytelling.
I have a feeling we'll be seeing Desmond's Oracle lady again. She didn't pluck all that information from him out of the air. She had knowledge of Desmond in the way that Des had knowledge of Charlie, when he met the musician busking in the street. So, I deduce from this, that the Oracle lady will meet Desmond again in a future episode or episodes.
So is she on the Island, I wonder?
It strains the brain all this time-causality stuff.
My two pennith-worth:
I got flash-backs to Wizard of Oz with the whole red shoes sticking out thing. Maybe that dude was a witch, or it was just another nod to the Wizard story, which i'm sure they've done before...
Teej
god, yeah! definate wizard of oz ref. i can't beleive i didn't pick that up when i watched it...
There seemed to be a lot of red throughout the episode.
The plot devices to tie our previous knowledge of Desmond together bothered me. The way the picture came to be, how he joined the military, I just couldn't buy it all. I just don't get why he suddenly broke it off with Penny out of the blue.
There was nothing original about this story. It's been done a million times. The revelation that Charlie will die kinda helped save it in th end. Are the next episodes going to be Desmond following Charlie around saving his life all the time? I predict if Charlie does die, Kate will be next.
Claire's bangs are distracting.
We Americans must like to see the stereo-typical England or the writers think we're to stupid to recognize it.
I thought we were going to be finished with Alcatraz Island.
I meant too stupid.
Casey D,
I totally get how you feel about this ep, even though I did like it.
No one going to mention the "David Hume" connection? (Desmond's middle name.)
Actually...did we know his middle name before last night? I can't believe I haven't caught it before if so.
We found out his full name last year in Live Together, Die Alone, when he was being released from prison, and the connection to the philosopher. The dude giving him his person effects said his name was Desmond David Hume.
I thought about the Wiz reference, but wrote it off as insignificant. I figured the Oracle was just pointing it out, so Desmond would notice him when the scaffolding collapsed. Otherwise Desmond wouldn't have put 2 + 2 together.
Derrick, I haven't watched the episode for the 2nd run yet, so I don't know WHAT i must have missed (twice apparently), but what MYOKOM w/SAS references are you talking about? The song playing?
With all the time travel references lately, I'm beginning to think Adam and Eve are Probably Desmondo and Penny. She finds him eventually and they live out their lives on the island.
jimmy, I just read my last post about the episode and am surprised that you were able to understand what I was talking about because it seemed like i was being very unclear...kind of like the episode itself im sorry if everyone got what i was saying the first time but i am trying to get my wording in a way were i can put this episode behind me and look forward to the next
this episode seemed too much like filler, and that bothers me when we are so early in the season with unresolved issues needing to be resolved.
steph, we seem to be on the same page
...I want Desmond to rescue more people from the sea. Because...oh my. He may have just replaced Sawyer for me.
I loved this episode. My mother just sat there and went 'wtf?' while I just kept edging closer and closer to the telly getting more and more excited about what would happen next.
Gillian...shhh...me too.
You got it Aimee-aroo -- I can't hear that opening music without thinking of a little SAS. Seriously, I started cracking up right there and then in the pub scene when I heard it the first time. Then to hear it again -- ahhhh haaaa Cusaloft, the hand is on the other foot now.
is what happens when your federal government bails out major airlines.
I almost got it right. I'm still learning.
I think of my phone ringing when I hear that song now. But that's a whole other story. I have my cell programmed with personalized ringtones. Its programmed to play that song when any of the SaS folks call or text me. (Which is basically Ralph, Jimmy & Craig.)
I was on Skype with Kim when it rang once, and she's like "what's that?" and I had to explain it. It was Jimmy texting. It was funny.
I'm hilarious even unintentionally, it seems!
It's my own personal way of screening calls without actually having to look at it.
Kim, Aimee...
I just had a vision of the future and your podcast about "Flashes Before Your Eyes" was terrific. I can't wait for you to record and post it so the rest of the audience can hear it, brotha!
Lift it up, Kim.
we can't let this thing hit 100 posts...can we?
I say this forum must always be reset before we reach 108. :)
- SadAce
I'll post a new thread right when it reaches 108. Just incase. I don't want to mess with the forces of darkness.
Do posts past 108 start displaying in heiroglyphs?
After that your computer implodes, and an incomprehensible flashback occurs.
Did you hear about Lost's ratings sucking last week? What the fuck?
...100.
Aimee,
People were too busy making sweet, sweet love on Valentine's Day to watch LOST.
/cue cheesy music
Sex..over Lost..? You people have your priorities all screwed up. Pardon the expression.
No, What was the figure??
Its pretty inevitable, when you put it on the same night as that jumped up kareoke show. I think they made it worse by putting on later, cause alot of people will tivo it, go to bed and watch it at a more convienient time.
I'm so sick of American Idol. Barf.
Sex over Lost?
Ummm....yes!
Single people...I'll never understand you.
maybe if they change the format of American Idol...I'd be interested again. Maybe actually have to make the contestants use their brains and do a singer/songwriter version where the people are emphasized to write their own material.
...107...hurry up and push the button
- SadAce
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beep!! beep!!!
What happened to my clothes?
system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure system failure....
aimee you must have been wearing Metalic Clothes!
Sorry about your clothes, Aimee. I just look so good in them. You can have 'em back tomorrow.
Wait... what? :\
My hatch clock didn't quite come out right. this is what it should've looked like...
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Now do the Heiroglyphs
I would, but i can't find my ancient egyptian keyboard...
Tut tut, datty mike. Keep better care of your priceless pharaonic artifacts.
And how am I supposed to make a 'Bubba Ho-tep' reference without heiroglyphs?!
classic campbell!
"And the bottom line: ...Cleopatra does the nasty." - JFK
Wow its been a busy day so far. Aimee were the ratings for lost bad? Because it was a great episode. Maybe people will come back next week.
What did people think of The Office. I loved it when Michael got pissed at Ryan the Noob. The last scene with Pam was kinda lame but it was good that michael ended up helping Pam instead of the other way around. I also liked the Vampire stuff with jim.
Vampire prank was great. i'm still in love with Karen post singing with scrantonicity, and the fact that she's helping out with the Dwight pranks just further sinks the Pam ship.
They're already starting to make Roy a dick again.
Michael's lecture was a page right out of the book of Gervais. It's a little harder to laugh at Michael since he seems to come from a more honest and sweet place. He's self-absorbed and attention hungry, but, unlike Gervais, he doesn't seem to be the type that would stab somebody in the back to get ahead. unless it's Tobey of course.
andrew.
the vampire stuff was great...
the glare coming from Angelas crucifix is blinding...my god karen that bread is white hot.
I love the jim and dwight interactions.
- SadAce
My New lost theory.
Jacob is the SMOKE MUNSTER.
kablamo!
"Your art is the prettiest art of all the art."
LOL
I am glad to see that one of my Top 10 Candies made it on the show!
Move aside for Chunky! - that is a misquote of what Producer Ryan says evertime we record.
Mike, Lost was reeling in 20 million viewers in their season 1 glory days. Started dropping to the 16's I think in season 2. The ratings for Not in Portland were down to 14.5 million, even with all the promoting they did.
The early Neilsen estimates for Flashes Before Your Eyes was 12.8 million.
I blame the lack of Scott and Steve, for the season 3 decline.
Craig, Dylan -- you hearing this??? Better come back and save Lost for all of us!!!
127 and counting!!!
Hear that Aimee, Ralph thinks we're not helping with the ratings :(
I'm upset.
Maybe if we had an on-air pillowfight or something that would help.
Yes. Please.
And Ben and Ralph can have an on-air creamed corn wrestling match. You know... if you're interested in that kind of thing.
Hieronymus- Charlie's middle name on sign. I googled it. Found Bosch Hieronymus is a Dutch painter as well as it being the name of a pop rock band from Oxford, England. Anyone know the revelance of this?
Steph,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus
Interesting to note that Hieronymus has a familiar variant: Geronimo.
Which was my name is Spanish class in high school.
And there's the whole Geronimo Jackson thing from LOST too... :)
Whoops! I haven't sent in my Nielson diary for that week yet. Let me get right on that.
I can't believe some of the shows that are ahead of LOST right now. It's barely hanging on to top 20 status. And somehow there are 30 million + fuckin lemmings parking their asses in front of AI twice a week. It's no wonder this country's goin' down the tubes. omg, did I just say goin' down the tubes? I'm turning into my father!@!#
oh! and Jimmy - I'm with you, Brother. After all, you can't TiVo a good shag now, can you?
OMG, Palmer. That remark about having names in high school Spanish class brought my life flashing before my eyes. I wish I could remember mine. I wish I could remember Spanish.
stephsmith
I forgot my password.
my name was enrique
mi nombre era diego en clase española
Era enamorado con mi profesor español
~Diego (DA)
Pienso que el podcast de Aimee y Kim necesita ser en espanol solamente.
Or some such. I think I just want to hear them try to talk like Ricardo Montalban. Maybe during their much hyped on-air pillow fight?
/cuatro ocho quince...
I just got the coolest shirt ever. I'll send a photo of it to the email when I get back to Toronto tomorrow. Wheeeeee!!
Is anyone else looking forward to next week already? I'm half half-exams and huge ass papers due in, yet Lost tends to make up for it.
Oh, and Aimee-I think we should just scrap the whole idea of this 'Skate' and 'Jate' thing and focus on Desmond.
Or maybe they could do a podcast in Klingon, PalmerEldritch.
Hey, did anyone ever see the episode of Frasier where he gave a speech at his son's Hebrew school in Klingon, all the while thinking he was speaking Hebrew?
How's that for a diversion from our regularly scheduled topic?
I'm not rereading all these posts to see if this has been discussed but,Aimee, there's a new book.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/laughter-in-dark.html
I took German in high school. Spanish is over rated :)
Are the ladies doing another podcast this weekend? With a pillow fight vidcast next week :)
Heironimous Bosch are a wank student band.
TeeJ
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