Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Live Together, Die Alone (episode discussion)

125 comments:

Mike Campbell said...

OMG OMG OMG OMG this is insane. Way to go lost. 10 MORE MINUTES

Lauren from SC said...

whaaaaaaa?! (in Scooby voice)

Yeah, I think that's about it.

Ow my brain. I forgot to blink or something.

Mike Campbell said...

well...the preview was right. it changed the show. We left the island.

ofri said...

Wow. That's some good television. Does anyone believe that Michael and Walt are gone for real? I'm pretty sure Locke and Eko are ok, but I don't think there is a very good chance that Desmond survived. Sucks for Penelope. How the hell does she know about the electromagnetism stuff?
"Henry Gale" sucks balls, and I really want to know what he means by "the good ones."

ofri said...

Also, I could just hear Carlton laughing his retarded laugh when Hurley asked if that bird just said his name. Lame.

Lauren from SC said...

I'm pretty sure Michael and Walt are gone for good; it solves the whole super growth spurt problem with Walt.

Since it would probably be annoying, it's also possible that Michael will try to redeem himself by taking the boat around the island and trying to help the rest.

Mike Campbell said...

This might be wrong but i have a semi theory...

With the whole lost experence maybe in the summer we will get news reports that they found two surviers of flight 815. Michael and Walt. just an idea. It seems like they might try something like that.

Or in the third season maybe michael might cross paths with des's girlfriend and try to help her.

notahowiefan said...

Great episode! Much better than last year's peek down the ladder. Hope that Desmond makes it out . . . .

Mike Campbell said...

I just watched all of Carnivale so when i saw Kelvin i flipped out. Cause he was the son of darkness on that show.

Katie said...

Wow.

I had a finale party and you could hear a pin drop at the end...Except for Meng laughing when Locke said, "I was wrong!".

Awesome television. I love this show more than ever.

Lauren from SC said...

Kelvin had a pretty fragile skull.

Mike Campbell said...

yeah lauren i could have sworn it was his back that snaped. Maybe Desmond is just pure bad ass. Chuck Norris style

Anonymous said...

Holy crap, what exactly happened at the end there?

Anonymous said...

Long time reader, first time post...

I think I lost about 10 pounds while watching tonight's episode! Our finale party was great. Lots of gasping and "What the..?!" I was burning up from the intensity of it all! So, I throw kudos out to the writers and producers for some great entertainment.

Just my guess, but I beleive Penelope would have working knowledge of the island and "what's going on there," through her father. Mr. Widmore, I'm guessing, is the owner of Widmore Labratories which makes all of DHARMA's food and stuff. With her unlimited financial resources, I can see her pulling off a "search" for Desmond.

Again, what a heart pounding and thrilling finale. Television at its finest! I can't believe we have to waite FIVE MONTHS til season 3. What's a fan to do????

Anonymous said...

So if we are to believe Desmond's story, the ONLY reason the plane crashed was because of an ACCIDENT? He just happened to pick THAT day to follow Kelvin out of the hatch, and then he suddenly realizes he has to get back and runs like hell only to be too late? So many theories think that the people in the plane were there for a reason. Why would everyone be on the plane for a reason if there wasn't an actual PLAN to bring the plane down?

Anonymous said...

The minute Locke and Desmond forced the lockdown and looked at the counter I screamed at the TV "Why give Ecko 99 minutes to figure out a way to get to the button?" Why not do it at 10 minutes? Then, I immediately screamed again and said "If you believe so firmly that the button must not be pressed, Locke, DESTROY THE COMPUTER!" Do it now, before Ecko gets through or Desmond changes his mind. They just wanted to milk the drama and suspense as long as they could, even though it didn't make sense.

Anonymous said...

I love Sayid, but I thought he was just going to do a little recon on the camp, then meet with Jack and decide the best way to proceed. Why was he kicking in doors on the yurts with rifle in hand? If the others really were there he would have been toast. His little Rambo moment didn't seem very smart.

Anonymous said...

It just seems odd to me that the people hanging out on the beach have so little interest in the hatch. After an explosion in the hatch (which they probably couldn't hear) and an electromagnetic incident that destroys the hatch and causes EVERYONE to cover their ears and turns the sky a different color, they don't even go to the hatch to investigate? Let's just put the food back on the shelf and sit out on the beach by the fire and look at the stars.

Anonymous said...

So, based on what we've seen so far, is there any chance that Fenry is "him?"

sayten said...

BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS BADASS

Ralph- said...

I WROTE THIS TODAY IN THE "last minute predictions" thread today!

said...

i am watching "Adrift" right now and Desmond asks how long ago the plane crashed. Locke says about 42 days ago, and Desmond pauses. He either pauses because 42 is one of the numbers, or he might have not pressed the button 42 days ago, causing the plane to crash.

11:15 AM

SWEET! i ruined the episode for myself!

Ralph- said...

Both me and my wife have headaches! did the same happen to you guys?

aimee in little rock said...

Oh my gosh Ralph, yes!

My excitement from watching the finale was dulled by the excessive pressure in my skull; I had a cluster headache by the time I came home from work,and it got progressively worse as the night went on. I'd like to blame the electromagnetics, but that wouldn't be fair to them.

It was a great episode, but I don't think it deserved J.J.'s label as "the best ending for show, ever."

I'm going to assume that the "Challah", was that Hank was actually "him".

ofri said...

I think the Challah was the two Portuguese guys calling Penelope Widmore.

sayten said...

i agree, i think it was that last two minutes of the show. it was strange to suddenly be off the island, in real time - it's the first time the island formula has ever been broken.

This episode probably deserves at least 20 points of revelation or so.

aimee in little rock said...

Perhaps you're right. But I think H.G. being "him" is a bigger deal than some foreign chess players calling Pen, because we know H.G., or at least thought we did. We've only just now seen the chess players.

Mike Campbell said...

I am going to side with the two chess players being bigger, only because it totally changes the show. We have had no contact with the outside world at all. Just focused on the 14 or 15 people on the island, and for awhile during the episode i thought maybe des was right, there is nothing else out there.

In Theory we are going to be following Pen next season as she searches for the island. Because in an interview Cuse said that we will introduce new people in the finale that we will want to see flashbacks of.

That might also mean we will be getting Bizzaro Henry flashbacks about if he is in charge over there, which would be sweet ass sweet.

Mike Campbell said...

BTW did anyone see Jimmy Kimmil last night. It was pritty Lame. they didn't really say anything special, hugh just kept saying that Lost is a fictional tv show Hanso Foundation is real and a good buisness.

Mike Campbell said...

but there is no way i am reading Dickens this summer. I hate him. :)

aimee in little rock said...

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I can see how that final scene was a great buildup for season 3 because it involves the outside world, but as far as season 2 was concerned, I was more interested in H.G.

While I'm on my Lost reading marathon, does this mean I have to read ALL of Dickens' books, since Desmond mentioned them all? Please say no.

BTW, I'm about 2/3 done with Watership Down, which is actually an incredible book, and my favorite so far. At first you have to get used to the idea of reading about rabbits, but after a while, you don't even think about that anymore. I only wish the characters of Lost could be so clever as these rabbits.

sayten said...

i agree by the way that seeing HG was far more exciting - he's such a good character, and i'm glad he's going to be a regular next season.

did anyone else think the boat was going to explode once michael and walt got far enough away? And how anti-climactic was their reunion? I think i cared more about rose and bernard.

Here's the Kimmel interview.
It will probably get taken down in a day or two.

aimee in little rock said...

Thanks; with my enormous headache, I couldn't stay up to watch it myself.

sayten said...

heh.

Mike Campbell said...

I think if we were to read Dicken's we would only have to read the one Des wouldn't read till he died.

I think the finale also answered the question about the wispers. Because the wispers started to happen right before the others attacked them. Now it wasn't 100% the same wispers because i could understand some of what they were saying, but the others can make the wispers happen to freak them out.

aimee in little rock said...

The only part of the whispers I could make out was the word "Elizabeth". Did anyone hear something else?

Ralph- said...

who are the "Others" impersonating with the beards and costumes? there has to be a third set of people on the island that we have not seen yet, these people must be the "Bad Guys".

i think that the Violet Sky was the biggest moment. i thought that the show should have ended there, it was so insane and full of questions, that by the time we got to the end, i was not as impressed with the actual ending.

aimee, dont read all of dickens. one is fine.

i too thought that michael was going to explode

what was the deal with Jack's smile to kate? was that because they knew that sayid was about to snipe all the "good guys"?

why would the canisters be dumped off in the middle of the field? could those be shiped back to the "Pearl"? is the island experiment done with, and all of these people just happen to be here after all the dharma folks shipped off?

aimee in little rock said...

Ralph, you pose a very good question about the Others. Their disguises may be the impersonation of another group, or it may be to give survivors the appearance that they are less well off than they actually are.

I think the Others, when they refer to themselves as the "good ones", mean to say that the survivors are the "bad ones".

The reason this makes more sense is because on several occasions, the Others have tried to explain how they're not bad people, and that they're misunderstood. Goodwin, H.G., Zeke - oh I'm sorry - Tom; they've all tried to convince the survivors that they're the good ones; it's just that none of the survivors actually listen.

I think the Pearl may have been the psychological experiment after all. Why else would the vacuum tubes lead to the middle of a field where obviously no one has collected them in a really long time.

Think of how long it would take to fill ONE of those books...

Now multiply that number by several hundred...

That's how long it's been since anyone has collected those tubes -

Probably never.

Ralph- said...

is it just me or did it look like that guy that Sawyer shot, resemble Marvin Candle? i guess that the produers thought it would be fun to give that dude a similar haircut.

i think that hurley is wearing the green shirt, to symbolize his rage, just like The Incredible Hulk!

did you notice that odd look on walt's face when he hugged michael?

aimee in little rock said...

Not particularly, Ralph. What was the look on his face like?

Ralph- said...

it was very similar to Sun's face in "The Whole Truth". it felt a little deceptive. could be just me.

aimee in little rock said...

Somehow I doubt we've seen the last of Michael and Walt.

There are so many bits and pieces of the show that I wonder about.

What of the Dharma-brand guard sharks?

Ralph- said...

what about charlie's visions?

i have this weird feeling that locke and eko have fully become one. i am not usually one for getting into super natural theories, but i just have this hunch. what is up with that statue?

is this supposed to be atlantis or something?

Ralph- said...

what is up with the dharma alchohol? if this insident was a real threat, than why would they provide booze?

aimee in little rock said...

You know, I'd totally forgotten about that statue. That statue with the 4 toes. I just shivered.

Ralph- said...

i am going to go watch it again. i will be back in about 2

Scott and Steve said...

Why wouldn't they provide booze?

I think the Challa was that Craig and Fro-Gurt didn't save the day.

And can someone get to work on printing me up some DHARMA composition notebooks?

Thank you,
Dylan

Ralph- said...

holy shit!
dylan, are you all caught up?!?!

Anonymous said...

I take Fenry's statement that they are the "good ones" with a huge grain of salt. By what rationale is "planting a spy in a group of survivors; SNEAKING up in the middle of the night and kidnapping adults but especially children; disguising your real appearance, real location, and real motives" deemed "good?"
-Russ

Anonymous said...

I also think the last two minutes were the real "Challah" and more interesting than Fenry on the dock. A number of people have speculated that Fenry is actually "Him" so we've had the chance to mull that over and consider the implications. The phone call to Penny, however, was a complete surprise. I suspected that the Swan hatch (and the season-long pre-occupation with the mysteries of that hatch and the other hatches) would be left behind as the survivors started to explore the island and the show expanded its scope. It was more than even I anticipated to see the scope of the show expand to include the real world. That was a great ending.

aimee in little rock said...

Dylan!

Anonymous said...

So let me ask a stupid question and maybe this panel of experts can educate me.

What happens now with the "electromagnetic anomaly" that the button pushing release valve is not working AND the "failsafe" has been activated?

Was the effect (violet sky, noise) that strong because Dharma had built a huge dam around it and it was all released at one time, or is the anomaly that powerful all the time?

Just wondering,
Russ

jmwyb said...

Did anyone check out the new website? They have 5 positions open. Isn't that the total amount of "others" killed. I remember Ethan, the guy AL killed, 2 more by the tallies, and the guy last night. Am I wrong?

jmwyb said...

Also, did anyone log in under hugh mcintyre's name on the hanso website and see the secret video?

Ralph- said...

what i am wondering, is that HG was most likely around when Desmond failed to punch in the numbers.

why would HG feed the story to locke that he did not punch in the numbers in Lockedown?

aimee in little rock said...

Russ, here is my best take/analysis of the electromagnetic stuff:

I should think that whatever the naturally-occuring electromagnetic activity on the island was about, the Swan station was somehow harnessing and/or controlling it.

The incident was caused by some problem within their harnessing/controlling of it, and after that, they had to start releasing bits of it every 108 minutes to keep it under control.

The "failsafe/system shutdown" was exactly that - to shutdown the entire system so that the electromagnetic energy was no longer being controlled/harnessed at all.

The violet sky was simply a reaction to that control system being shut down, and doesn't actually reflect the normal behavior of the EM activity on the island; that's why the violet sky stuff stopped. It could be that all the EM energy that was being controlled/harnessed was released all at once, instead of the 108 minute interval amounts.

Now, the island is as it was before Dharma came along and decided to control it.

How it may pertain to the future: The system that controlled the EM activity could be the same reason why no one could find/escape the island on purpose. Now that the island is allegedly natural again, perhaps that won't be the case anymore.

Ofri said...

I was not debating as to which revelation was more interesting. Damon and Carlton defined the "challah" as the last few minutes of the show, and by their definition that is definitely the Portuguese guys and Penelope. As to what is more important, that's what's called a matter of opinion. I happen to agree that the more important element is the island being located.
Now, about this Hugh McIntyre interview. I feel like this is fabricated. They said they were running ads during Lost to tell people about the true Hanso Foundation, but it's obvious to anyone that Carlton is narrating those ads. I wonder if they are trying to further blur fiction and reality, and if they are they are being pretty lame.

aimee in little rock said...

Ofri, I don't think you need to explain what a matter of opinion is to me. I'm fairly intelligent, and besides, isn't that what the phrase "agree to disagree" refers to?

Mike Campbell said...

there was a lot of speculation that the EM was helping locke walk and healed rose. DO you think rose will get sick again and locke won't be able to walk?

Also i was watching the howard stern with JJ on it and he said the guy who says the "prevosuly on lost" is a guy by the name of loyd brawn who was the guy who got JJ to create the show. They talked about that voice on the official podcast once.

Mike Campbell said...

aimee - your wrong, face it :) J/K

Mike Campbell said...

so i have to ask again, Taylor won. Any one happy with that??

i couldn't decide who i wanted Kat or Taylor, because it's clear that Chris should have won. :)

aimee in little rock said...

Thanks for the joke Mike. This isn't about right/wrong. It's about opinions. If you're not sure what an opinion is, just ask Ofri; he'll explain it to you.

aimee in little rock said...

And yes, Chris should have won. But between Katherine & Taylor, I am glad Taylor won. The world has enough pretty faced girls who can sing. There's nothing original about her. A decent male solo singer who has individuality is a rare find.

Ralph- said...

i wrote this in the "three minutes episode discussion" last week!

we know that Celvin wandered the jungle (that is how he found desmond), we know that desmond thinks that the outside world is contaminated. Desmond says Celvin is dead, but there is no Body in the bunker. could it be that celvin brought desmond down into the bunker, told him some BS about the dangers of going outside,then leaving the bunker never to return? this would make desmond believe that celvin is dead, when in reality celvin secured the sailboad while keeping the experiment going with his new replacement!

4:25 PM


maybe this is why i was not super impressed with the episode, cause it didnt twist and turn on me.

Mike Campbell said...

and lets face it how much fun would it be if everyone aggreed about this show. That would Suck.

Aimee you are a god to me. You are plowing through the books. I want to try to finish one so we can have a nice chat about it. so please, slow down :)

Mike Campbell said...

Lets face it. Ralph is the next walt. Reading minds and everything

Ralph- said...

well, ben and i did an 8 minute piece for craigs upcoming show. we recorded it on monday, and stated our predictions, but i dont think i got any of those right. esentially we will look like fools if craig puts it on the podcast. which i dont mind.

aimee in little rock said...

Ralph, you are the next Walt.

Mike, I literally just finished reading Watership Down. It's very slow at work, so I've been reading and posting almost all day! WOW! This was an amazing book. If anyone plans to read any of the books in the Lost library, I suggest you make it this one. I know now how Lost is going to end. Or at least how it ought to.

I will buy the Third Policeman after work today and begin that one, but I'd like to pick up more than one. What other books am I forgetting now from the list?

aimee in little rock said...

With 5 months of off-season Mike, I'm sure you can catch up.

Mike Campbell said...

did you read "Hello god, its me margert" (or how ever you spell it)

I read the first half of Third Policemen, its something. I had to take a break, its pritty crazy.

Anonymous said...

Excellent explanation, Aimee, thanks.

Here's a follow-up. You mentioned in your post "I think the Pearl may have been the psychological experiment after all." If that is the case, and the Swan button pushing function was NOT an experiment, what were they doing with the electromagnetic energy they had harnessed?

It seems they have created a situation that requires a release every 108 minutes to avoid a problem. Why keep your system on the razor's edge of catastrophe for years on end?

Kelvin and Desmond seem to think they are "saving the world" but what happened in this episode when the whole thing went down? Everything returns to normal after one big release? If the phone call is any indication, the world is still intact and doing just fine.

Again, if you wanted to eliminate this potentially dangerous situation, couldn't Dharma release a little bit more pressure each time the button is pressed until eventually all the energy in the "dam" is gone and we're back to normal?

Opinions welcome,
Russ

aimee in little rock said...

I read the Judy Blume book when I was a pre-teen, but I'll read it again just for the hell of it.

Watership Down had many subtle reminders of Lost, but also a few that were a little more overt. each chapter has a title, and in the beginning of each chapter, the author quotes a book, poem, song, etc. There is a character mentioned a few times named "Mr. Lockley", one of the chapters opens with a quote from the Brothers Karamazov, and the title of chapter 48 is called "Dea ex Machina" which means goddess of the machine, as opposed to god of the machine (Deus ex machina) from the season 1 episode.

Russ, I don't know what they were doing with the EM stuff, but it is afterall, one of the Hanso foundation's projects.

I'm guessing they kept the system on razor's edge for years because they cared enough about the Hanso program/experiment.

I don't think they could end the potiently dangerous situation as long as they were keeping that EM program alive. I believe the energy in the dam is perpetually filled and released, so as to not overload it. This way, they can continue whatever it is they do with it. If they emptied it all, yet kept the system going, it's still going to keep filling up the dam. By shutting the system down completely, they've more or less stopped filling the dam.

aimee in little rock said...

Mike, I don't think you're that far behind. I found a list of literary references from Lost, and between the number of books actually appearing on the show (14), and the number simply referenced on the show (17), I've only read 5 out of 31.

Jimmy said...

Here I come in at post 74! Must be a record for this blog, I would think.

In short, I generally liked it. thought Desmonds story was very interesting, and I have to admit I really connected with him a bit.

I thought the ending with Penelope was very clever, very interesting, but Fuck, it could have been better if it finished on the Island. But very cool to see the outside world in real time! Also, we actually finally have an official date with a year as far as the original plane crash.

I still want to know why the others disguise themselves? Why they wanted Hurley to walk all that way and then leave with a message? And the whole Eko Locke thread I thought was left hanging.

And I would be kicking Charlies head in right now wondering why he isn't telling much about what went on?

Libby looked nice with a bob :)

aimee in little rock said...

The number of posts is partially my fault Jimmy. I have to admit I haven't been very busy at work today.

Something else I thought of that will prove to be very useful to our survivors is the map on the blast door. Naturally, this is completely dependent on the following:

a) the door is still intact
b) the mechanics of the Swan station work at all anymore, and
c) Desmond is still alive (since he's the one who knows how to open and close the blast doors)

Ralph- said...

i have a feeling that the blast doors are done for. i think that by Sawyer having a map to the island, they will be able to do more exploring without having the bunker in the storyline. i have a feeling that the producers wanted to get rid of the bunker, so that season 3 could get back to its more primitive roots.

where does the smoke monster fit into all of this?

did kelvin hire into dharma, then get stationed at the swan with the dude that shot himself?

what about Lenny back at the hospital? where does he fit in? was he around the swan station before kelvin showed up?

i hope that Penny's storyline does not come back for a couple of seasons. i dont want to watch her globtrotting while looking for the island. i want to stick with the survivors.

i know that this blog comment section is gettting really long, but at least everyone is putting valid questions, and few answers.

yipes, this episode was pretty damn good, as far as the information we recieved. i thought it could have been edited a little better in the 3rd act. jeez. i have watched it twice, and i keep seeing things that are new. like when Locke said, "they're not my friends". WTF Locke? these are people that you help, and people who look up to you for advice! i find it hard to believe that he would turn his back on CLaire, after all that he has done for her, and charlie too. I guess locke is just an asshole, when it comes down to it. Talk about a Phongna Balogna!

Anonymous said...

Is that scratched out hatch on the blast door map, the fake hatch that the others were originally guarding?

aimee in little rock said...

Excellent point about getting rid of the Swan so they could return to their primitive roots of survival. You're not only the new Walt, you're the new Locke too(because, um, he's like, philosophical?). All you have to do is kick someone's ass and you can be the new Eko.

I picked up the Third Policeman, and the bio about the author says in 1927 his family moved to a town called Blackrock, and he went to school at Blackrock College.

Ralph- said...

i honestly think that i spend half od my day thinking about lost. it is sad, but i guess it is my only hobby. i love movies, and i love old Flash Gordon serials. Lost is the closest thing to an old serial from the 30s that we have today. that is why i am so into the show, and not as much into the lost experience. i love visual story telling, and lost is great at it

Anonymous said...

Here's an article with a few comments by Carlton & Damon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/25/arts/television/25lost.html?_r=2&8dpc&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

I found the comment about Desmond activating a "backup system" interesting. I really thought he activated a "failsafe" that shut down the whole operation, but Carlton seems to indicate otherwise.

"Last night's episode solved two significant "Lost" puzzles, which turned out to be related. What would happen when the button wasn't pushed? (There was a huge explosion, and if Desmond had not activated a backup system, Mr. Cuse said, "It might have led to, ultimately, sucking everything on earth into itself.") And what crashed the castaways' plane? (It was a casualty of the only other instance when the button was not pushed on time.)"

That electromagnetic anomaly is much more powerful than I ever imagined.

Russ

Anonymous said...

We knew from the 1st episode this season that Desmond had been on the island 3 years. I know I thought it was unfortunate he ran off because surely he would be able to answer all our questions about the hatch, Dharma, the island, etc.

I was amazed when Desmond revealed that in 3 years he had NEVER gone outside the hatch. Radzinski and Kelvin were the ones to explore the island and draw the map. Desmond's 1st trip outside was when he followed Kelvin to the boat. The only information he knew was what Kelvin told him and it seemed to me he didn't explain very much at all.

So, even though Desmond looks studly and would be a strong worker, he'll provide little or no help in the survivor's quest to understand the island.

Am I right in saying the only reason Desmond knew about the others was because Kelvin made an offhand comment, and Desmond used the exact same name to describe them, "hostiles."

Russ

aimee in little rock said...

Good catch Russ, I guess they really were saving the world then, eh?

Obviously, that system hasn't been there forever, so I wonder what Dharma had done on that island pre-incident to put the planet is such jeopardy.

I guess their "man's blessing of curiosity" really bit them in the ass. Way to go Hanso.

Anonymous said...

- i agree that the producers were tired of the hatch, the same way they were tired of the caves.
- i'm guessing Kelvin's partner who shot himself (R... something or another) painted the mural. He had begun the inviso-map and he went crazy enough to paint such a disjointed image.
- What was the purpose of the inviso-map? Why paint it inviso if they felt that they had been abandoned in the hatch?
- Where did Desmond's 'snowman' riddle originate? Why was he so obtuse and distrusting when the survivors first entered the hatch? 'are you him?'
- did Desmond just want to kill himself? Obviously he saw the stuff in the hatch fly around when he let the timer count down after Kelvin's death, so why was he so willing to go along with Locke?
- after Desmond saw Kelvin romping about out of his environment suit, why did he continue to take the vaccine?
- points to Kate for raising her doubts about the others, even belatedly, based on the beard & glue. Unlike other characters, I've never had a problem with her withholding information because it fits her fugitive character, always trying to get an angle on her situation. That's why i never bought any of the Kate=Other theories.
- the canister pile definitely seemed to indicate that the pearl was the psychological experiment
- did anyone else want to punch Charlie at the end when he didn't seem to give a shit about Locke, Ecko or Desmond? I undestand he was happy to have Claire again, but he just did a 180 and became a creep.

andrew.

ofri said...

aimee, i am a she, not a he. sorry you took my comment the wrong way, it was not intended to offend you. i had not commented at all on which point was more revelatory, so naturally i assumed the agreement to disagree was with someone else.

sayten said...

shut up, you're totally a "He". That argument isn't getting you anywhere.

Ralph- said...

i am sure that no body on this board sets out to be offensive to others. Only love will be provided on this board. YOu are the smartes lost fans out there! and the most mature!

aimee in little rock said...

No worries ofri, regardless of gender. I tend to overreact anyways. I don't think anyone here takes anything too seriously, or at least to the point of honest offense. You could call me an internet whore, and I'd just call you a douche with digital attitude or something. And yes, we're all very mature around here.

I'm not trying to overwhelm you Mike, but I'm about 1/3 of the way through The Third Policeman. Surprisingly not much has happened, but my brain feels like it's going to explode.

I'm overanalyzing it way too much like I was writing a comparative analysis between it and Lost (since Carlton Cuse seemed to put so much stock in this book being the rosetta stone of Lost).

I've taken some notes, but I don't really know why. The first thing I noticed of quotable quotes from it was that "the bad ones outnumber the good ones three to one", which would be an interesting statement if it held true to Lost mythology.

However, the question remains, who is good and who is bad?

Lauren from SC said...

Here are some hole-riddled theories that just came to mind:

Penny's dad set it up for Desmond to be stuck on the island. Widmore obviously has something to do with Dharma or Hanso. Kelvin was ordered to trick him into taking his place and then Kelvin was going to take the boat to trap him there.

I still think there was some sort of plan for that particular plane to crash on the island even after we found out that Desmond's "screw up" caused the crash. Kelvin was probably trying to get Desmond to follow him. The tear in his suit was supposed to get Desmond's attention and make him late pushing the button. I'm not sure why Desmond would keep taking the vaccine.

On a real world conspiracy theory note, I think there was something in the finale or in the commercials that gave us headaches. Maybe it was the electromagnets.

My boyfriend is taking an electromagnetics course in summer school. He didn't have any good insights into the electromagnetic discharge/ violet sky situation, though. Maybe after another couple of weeks of class.

aimee in little rock said...

I'm curious about the headache conspiracy. I know I started watching it with a bit of a headache, but it grew progressively worse as I was watching the episode.

By the time the show was over, I felt so much pressure in my skull, that I thought you could prick it with a pin, and my head would explode.

Katie said...

Aimee:

You're wondering who is good and who is bad, but let's not forget to define our terms. "Good" and "bad" can be quite relative, and that's what I think is the hard part about all this "we're the good guys" business.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I didn't get a headache watching the finale. Maybe I will when I watch it again, but I definitely didn't on Wednesday. I'm not shoot down your conspiricy theory, Aimee (all data points in a set do not have to fall into your predicted parameters for your hypothesis to be true), just wanted to put my two cents in. Then again...I didn't really watch the commercials, I muted the TV and talked with the people at my finale party.

Also, when did Cuse ever say "The Third Policeman" was the Rosetta Stone of Lost? I thought the joke was on us because neither Lindelof nor Cuse actually read the book, it was some crew member who did and liked it, so he put it in there.


Lauren:

I agree with the point you're making about the plane crash being an accident. Why would they put so much effort into all these flashback connections only for it to end up being "fate" or "destiny"? I also don't think we have all the pertinent information about why the plane crashed because of all of the other questions that pop up merely from Desmond realizing that he did it. There's NO WAY TPTB would give us all that much information about the plane crash without leaving a crucial part of the story out or otherwise twisting it to seem like something it isn't.

aimee in little rock said...

Katie, I agree the definitions of good and bad are all relative, that's why I posed the question at the end of my last comment.

As far as the headaches are concerned, I think we'd all have to be pretty delusional to believe something like that.

About the book, in my search for the Lost library list, I found some article about the literary references, and some comments from C.C. about the book. The "rosetta stone" comment was actually the author of the article, but what she quoted C.C. as saying was something along the lines of, if you read this book, you'll understand the mysteries of Lost. I think I had seen that article before, but I can't remember.

Regardless of its significance, I'm reading the Lost library for my own nerdy purposes, and nothing more. It's probably healthier than watching tv all the time, and at least it will help me pass the time until season 3.

aimee in little rock said...

If neither of them have ever read the book, I don't think it would much matter. If they've read about the fictitious philosopher/scientist cited throughout the book by the narrator, I think they'd have what they needed. Most of the seemingly Lost-related content appears to be from those parts of the book. (so far)

aimee in little rock said...

I just read a great article from the NY Times about the finale, most of you have probably already seen it though, but here is a link just incase:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/25/arts/television/25lost.html?8dpc

There is some commentary from the creators, who make a great point that by going off the island into the present time, they can finally put an end to the confounded purgatory/dream theories.

Ralph- said...

both me and stevi had headaches. i atribute this to the loudness of the sound, and the fact that i think my whole body was clenched during the entire episode. i swear, there was not one scene that was not intense. even when charlie told locke about eko, there was more going on in that scene, and dominic mognahan played it very creepy. i felt that in every scene, someone had the chance of getting killed at any moment. i think that the episode was a little too intense for my tiny brain to handle. plus looking at the screen non stop for 2 hours didnt help much.

Mike Campbell said...

In that same article they talk about how they sovled the answer to the plane crash. So i don't there is anything else to the plane crash. I think they just want to point out how small the world is and how people can run into each other all the time and not truely notice it.

Aimee - your next book should be "The Stand" by Stephen King. That book has a lot of connections to Lost. Its a little over 1000 pages so it will keep you busy while I can catch up :) Plus its a VERY good book. I have read it a few times.

aimee in little rock said...

Ralph, you bring up a good point. I think there was so much build-up about someone dying in the finale, especially considering the word "Die" was in the title of the finale, that so many expected to see it happen,and that's precisely why it didn't. It probably should've been a big clue to us that someone WOULDN'T die. Man, those writers are sneaky.

Mike, I think my eyes are now open to the idea that the connections are more along the lines of coincidence, rather than a supernatural force. But then again, they may be leading us to believe that, only to surprise us again.

I've actually already read The Stand, and it has always been one of my favorites. It ultimately led to my teenage obsession with Gary Sinise, whose father has been an internet friend of mine for about 11 years now.

I'm sorry Mike, but you'll just have to find another way to distract me.

Katie said...

Aimee:

Reading the Lost library is never a bad idea, regardless of your purposes!

Mike:

It's probably true that that's all there is to the question, "Why did Flight 815 crash?" But what about the questions, "How did everyone get on THAT flight?" "Are there ulterior motives for certain people being put on the plane?"

There's got to be something going on with that. The Others knew who these people were, their names and, it seems, certain things about their lives.

Ralph- said...

katie, i believe that we only learned HOW the plane crashed, and not WHY. there is definitly more to this than just desmond not punching in the numbers. why was the plane so far off course? i still am under the impression that there was a reason that the plane was brought there. i think that locke was right by saying that they were brought there. i really think there is an alternative motive.

did anyone think that they were going to release Jack Kate and Swyer and let them go off the island? i thought that they were going to be let loose, like Will Wheaton in Toy Solders. I know that is a bizaar reference, but i just felt like there are people in charge of this island that are higher up than Phoney Gale, and that they might be linked to Jack, Sawyer and Kate, and that they were going to free them.

maybe this is why my brain hurts. i really need to stop over analyzing.

aimee in little rock said...

You are right Ralph, we need to pace ourselves. We have a long offseason ahead of us. But you know what is comforting? That no matter how much we analyze, interpret, and discuss, we will never run out.

Katie said...

Ralph:

You articulated what I wanted to say, you were just better at it. I agree with you 100%.

Anything can happen with Jack, Kate and Sawyer, really. My initial thought was that they are going to be picked and prodded and tested and then brought before a higher up that will tell them things about the island and it's purpose. But that theory is just as good as anything else anyone comes up with because it's so completely open ended.

aimee in little rock said...

Damn you Ralph, I wanted to get that!

Mike Campbell said...

In that new york times article cuse said that by this time next year we will be learning "why the others are there...what do they wish to accomplish?" So my guess is that des's lady friend will be in the background next season and we will get getting a lot about the others. They said Michael Emmerson (Bizzaro henry) is going to be in the cast, not just a guest star.

They said they would be introducing a lot of new people so we would see their flashbacks.

Ralph- said...

i was just thinking. hurley has been sent back to the camp to tell the survivors not to go to the north side of the island.

Do you think that something similar happened to charlie? there is a chunk of time missing there, and i know that charlie isn't being 100% truthfull to claire. Charlie was sort of pissed at both Locke and Eko, maybe he knows something that we dont.

Ralph- said...

i just abused my powers. shh

Mike Campbell said...

this might be old news but i have been watching Veronica Mars season two and in the 10th episode she had a fourtune from a cookie with the Lost Numbers on it. I started to freak out and my girlfriend laughed at me. Did anyone hear if this was because the writers like Lost? Or is it just something that happened. I am tempted to think its a lost shout out

aimee in little rock said...

I just saw a Pine Sol commercial on tv with the bald Korean guy who played Sun's english tutor. He was like, levitating and meditating, and I guess the power of Pine Sol woke him up or something.

Ralph- said...

so, i am all dried up on questions. what am i going to do for the rest of the summer?

aimee in little rock said...

Mike, I read about this in an article in People magazine a while ago. It was back when the world was in a frenzy over the numbers. In addition to the Veronica Mars thing, there was also some other picture they had up there (from another show I think) where someone getting a mug-shot photo was holding up a sign, and their number was 4815162342.

aimee in little rock said...

Sorry Ralph, I had to post twice in order to get post 108.

sayten said...

Sadly, I woke up this morning, and my first thought was, "Why the hell didn't Michael bring Vincent with him?" Some father, sheesh.

aimee in little rock said...

Maybe Walt will tell Michael to go get Vincent. In Three Minutes, didn't Walt ask Michael about Vincent?

Ralph- said...

does anyone know if vincent is suppost to symboliz somthing? like a metaphore for healing, or something like that? it seems that by him showing up, it should be recognized as an important event.

every time i see vincent, i usually react by saying "Hey, there's Vincent!" out loud.

there has to be more to vincent than meets the eye. and why is vincent linked to sawyer now?

where is vincent going? that dog leaves for days at a time. i'll bet you that vincent has seen so much by now! i'll bet he saw that foot statue during season one!

Katie said...

Ralph:

I've generally wondered where pets (dogs and cats) go when they are away. I grew on 20 acres of woods and my pets, especially the cat, would just disappear for days at a time. None of us were ever distraught about it because they always did it and were always fine, but I just wonder what those animals are doing out there.

It just makes me want a Vincent flashback more.

aimee in little rock said...

It would be so weird to have a Vincent flashback episode, but I would love to see it. Do you think we would actually hear what was going on around him, or do you think it would be like Charlie Brown, and all like "Waahhh wahhh whaaahhh"?

Ralph- said...

i would love a vincent flashback as the Series Finale!
you would follow him on the island and see what he sees while he revealed all the gaps!

Jellymanianos said...

You lot seem to have covered most of the mentalness that went on, but i spotted a nice reference to the fact Alan Dale was in 'The O.C.' - the boat Elizabeth was from Newport Beach. I think i watch too much TV.

Wesh said...

lol that's a nice valid catch there jellyman! :)

Here's some stuff about the whispers i posted on the jayandjacklisterenerboard (yeh that's one word for ya!)

I've recorded the whispers. They're saying "Elizabeth" quite surely indeed. Listen for yourself and see what you pick up. It's just right after Mike says: "I had to!"

rapidshare download link:
http://rapidshare.de/files/21475037/whispers.mp3.html

Here's what i can transcribe from that:
0": -...Lizabeth.
1": [bird sound]
3": - Elizabeth.
5": - Don't Run, Michael.
9": Kill him.
18": - Elizabeth (? totally unclear to me)
19": Die! (totally clear )

Wesh said...

Oh, here's a megaupload link for that same file, if you prefer megaupload.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9AQG07TH

Gotama said...

Katie:

My family owns a farm and our cats would do the same thing. Sometimes they'll leave for months and then just show back up one day like they had been on sabbatical or something. I have no idea where they go.
Our Pyrenean Mountain Dog wondered as well, but his travels were less mysterious. When you weigh 150 lbs and resemble a polar bear, it's a little tougher to blend in. He'd head off for a night on the town (5 miles away).

Jellymanianos said...

cheers Wesh, love you!

dave said...

Did you guys notice Alex grab Kate's boobs on the pier when she's picking her up off her knees? Challah!

splash78 said...

hah, dave, yeah i noticed the boob grab. looked like an acting mistake though. or maybe we are led to believe it was a genuine mistake in the plot.

it would be funny to hear commentary on the fact from both actresses in a dvd or something.

splash78 said...

err . actors even, to be pc.

Gotama said...

Here's a pic of Kate being felt up:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8043/
2899/1600/Kate%27s%20boobs.jpg

MusselsFromBrussels said...

Ryan, no question after 3 podcasts you've got it... Dylan who again ?

I do hope you and Craig will make a few podcasts this summer so I can keep up the dosage of SAS !

Just wanted to mention that the one Wonder of the World you were thinking of was the Colossus of Rhodes

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Rhodes for more info

MusselsFromBrussels said...

oh, and about Alex copping a feel, if you watch the video, Alex (the actrice) seems to realise her mistake pretty quickly and removes her hands, hilarious.

And Ralph, don't get too upset about your message getting on the official podcast, we all know what to think about Karlton(Marx) and Damien(sonofthedevil)