Wednesday, April 01, 2009

Post Episode Discussion: Whatever Happened, Happened

146 comments:

Alirio said...

I'm prematurely FIRST!

t-dot kim said...

I love Hurley--Back II the Future

Sawyer's not as dumb as he looks!

memphish said...

How sick is it that Jack has been somewhat redeemed in my eyes by that choice.

Holli

JoeSC said...

Hurley's Back to the Future explanation was spot on! Love it!

I just hope they don't relegate him to throwaway lines all season, though... I NEED MORE HURLEY!!!

JoeSC said...

Yeah, I think I like Jack again... that was pretty sweet!

JoeSC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
memphish said...

I swear Kate wants to sleep with Roger.

Love that Jack, telling Kate off. Sweet.

Holli

Trevor McFur said...

Not exactly going out onto a limb with this one, but Kate's gonna do something dumb tonight, like spill the beans about where they're from so that Jack saves Ben.

The Hurley/Miles scene was funny, but no way is Hurley that dense about the ins and outs of time travel.

Why does Juliet want to save Ben so bad?

JoeSC said...

I thoroughly enjoyed the Hurley / Miles dialogue... I'm just glad him and Miles are finally getting a little face time...

Trevor McFur said...

OK, I know that there's a lot of other shit going on, and I know that you have to suspend your disbelief, but they just load up the dying kid into a van and drive away, and NO ONE else is there to see what's going on? Where's Roger? Where's Juliet's assistant? And no one else is wondering when the hot chick at the body shop became the chief surgeon?

t-dot kim said...

Juliet has NO shame.

The Hurley/Miles scene was one of my favourites of the entire series.

Jack actually is pissing me off in this episode--just like Sawyer.

Seriously, Ben was shot in the heart, HE SHOULD BE DEAD and they shouldn't be on this ridiculous quest.

The love-quad is BULLSHIT

JoeSC said...

Holy Frackin' Shart!

Did Jack's whole "I don't know what I'm here for yet" line remind you of Locke? They were eerily similar...

memphish said...

And speaking of Locke, are we ever going to see him again?

I actually like the quadrangle stuff tonight. I like Jack being a bastard and calling out Kate being a bitch. I like that Juliet was never going to lie to Sawyer. I like that Sawyer is helping Kate because of Juliet. I didn't really like Juliet going into the shower, but she'd already seen everything she wanted to during the surgery. Hey, if Locke can look why can't she?

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

first off, ben linus doesn't have a heart.

but if he did, it'd prolly be on the left side of his chest like the rest of us. his bullet wound is on the right.

JoeSC said...

"I did it for her." -Sawyer

As much as I don't like Kate, that was a low, low blow Jimbo!

memphish said...

And that wimpy little bullet didn't make it all the way through. Not a fan of Ben having even a remote chance of surviving, but it's pissing me off less than I though it would.

Holli

Trevor McFur said...

Yeah, he was shot in the heart, it's at least a few hours later, now he's being trekked across the island without even a bag of IV fluids or an oxygen tank, let alone the major-league drugs that he'd really need if he was in the hypoxic shock Juliet said he's in.


Ugh. Definitely not a favorite episode so far.

t-dot kim said...

That ending was soooooooo creepy

JoeSC said...

Now that's how you end an episode of LOST! Ask and ye shall receive Holli!

I thought this was a great episode, and I hate to say this, but I felt terrible for Kate... I feel like I owe her an apology now or something... nah!

memphish said...

It had a lot of holes, but I liked the episode way more than last week's. I know that's got to be tough for an MD, thank goodness my Hubby's at a drug rep dinner downtown. He still hasn't gotten over the kidney sac. I even liked Kate in this episode. She grew up and accepted her own selfishness. And I loved the end even though we didn't see Bernard and Rose with the Others as I was shouting at the TV. The return of Charles and Ellie though! Wow!

Holli

Trevor McFur said...

All right, I buy Kate's reason to give up Aaron and go back to the island. Poor Claire, pretty much everyone's forgotten about her.

JoeSC said...

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the Charles and Ellie line... Does that mean Ben's the reason BOTH of them left the island? Wow, that's some power!

Welcome back to the Land of the Living!

t-dot kim said...

Kate somewhat turned me this episode. I felt for her--she got the short end of the stick. 3x, with Jack, with Sawyer, and with Aaron.

Oh Kate.

Trevor McFur said...

Yeah, Kate came out all right in this one. And that little conversation her and Sawyer had before the Others came upon them ... Sawyer started to say something about doing a lot of growing up in three years. Maybe the end of the quadrangle?

I actually liked Kate's fbs, liked the creepy ending, and like Miles/Hurley. But the rest I thought was shite, really one of my least favorite eps...

memphish said...

Shite because of the implausibility factor Trevor?

Holli

Stephanie said...

Meh.

PalmerEldritch said...

maybe the "kidney sack" was a bluff by jack?

i still maintain that the wound was on the right. meaning no hearts there to be punctured.

is Ben a psycho cuz he has "the sickness" after being inhabited/changed by Smokey to save his life? sure looks like it!

glad that kate got called out on being a needy bitch. glad she admitted it. cheered when she said she was going back to get Claire. way to step up!

also, afterIsland Kate's hair looks great. glad she and Sayid shared straightening tips.

claire's mom looks pretty good for being in a coma all those years. and i swear she's had work done since she commented on goober at Christian's funeral. didnt she use to have a mole on her face?

i like Man of Faith Jack. interesting to note that he's still shaving his chest in '77. weirdo.

Stephanie said...

Thank you, Dr McFur. What about protecting the airway?

memphish said...

I noticed the chest shaving too. And Claire's mom's hair had really improved in just that one day. Probably the lack of rain.

Steph, you've watched too much Buffy and Angel lately. You're not in the right mindset.

Holli

Trevor McFur said...

The implausibility of Ben actually surviving that long is a big part of it. Pretty much the entire DI disappearing after the first 5 minutes of the episode is another. It just seemed very hastily slapped together to get injured Ben to Richard without much thought that the way they were telling that story didn't really make any sense.

Trevor McFur said...

The wound was on the right, meaning that the bullet hit his lung and/or liver; either was still major league badness. I don't expect real-world medicine, but it would have been nice if they had at least tried.

PalmerEldritch said...

unless the infirmary is on the outside of town and they loaded him up from the exit facing out of town so nobody saw.

and maybe he wasn't shot in the heart. even if it was on his left side.

c'mon, there's time travel and smoke munsters and shitty wigs and sneaking out of Dharmaville is implausible? :p

DenAss said...

Anybody think Kate might be in trouble now? She seems like she's well on her way to redemption.

She did the right thing for Aaron. She's not trying to come between Sawyer and Juliet. She's not screwing Jack for no apparent reason. She might just be next on Smokey's list...

thoughts?

memphish said...

They got every bit of Kate's legal stuff wrong. I'm glad to see they're treating the professions equally badly. It does seem like they purposely get the details of genre type shows wrong though. Thumbing their noses at ER and Law & Order perhaps.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

denass, kate's gotta find claire before she can die. right?

and hopefully claire will no longer be wearing that weird wig.

memphish said...

Maybe Claire can have new hair like Boone. After all it's been 3 years; surely she can get a haircut judging from all Juliet's hair options on Island.

I wish we had the Dharmalars to discuss all these hair issues.

Holli

DenAss said...

good point Palmer. I guess I was a little premature there. It happens to lots of guys though.

and btw, have we seen the chick in the grocery store before who was walking Aaron back to try to find his mommy?

she looked familiar.

PalmerEldritch said...

she stole claire's wig.

PalmerEldritch said...

claire's hair last season was unfortunate cuz she's really a very pretty girl and she was really just in desperate need of a makeover.

maybe her and jacob will share grooming tips?

DenAss said...

How funny would it have been if Hugo had actually shot Myles?

Why was Myles so trusting that Hugo wouldn't? We heard Myles say that he thought any of "them" could die.

PalmerEldritch said...

if Hurley shot him then Miles could talk to himself.

Stephanie said...

Holli, you have no idea. Just wait til my next podcast. I have a lot of editing to do to make myself sound sane. Now back to Angel.

Stephanie said...

I should have kamoomed I guess.

You know, my motherly instincts kept trying to tell me I should have been crying when Kate was. But I didn't I could give a crap.

Stephanie said...

Not kaboomed but kablammo. I'm such a dork.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh hey! no alternate universe or anything, right? sweet!

Mr. Bill said...

The Hurley stuff was my favorite it had me laughing out loud.

andrew. said...

- i wanted the bullet wound to be instantly fatal. it was not. in fact it seemed to swim around on young ben's chest throughout the episode, ending up somewhere near his hip bone by the end of the episode. so i'm forced to accept that, like his sperm, Jin's bullets are weak.

Brad said...

So Richard took Ben's Innocence in the Temple...

Wow. Insert Eye-Liner Comment here.

DenAss said...

Nice. How the hell did I miss that one!

JoeSC said...

Wow, now that I think about it, Kate just gave away two kids in the span of 3 days (or thereabout) and neither of the kids was actually hers...

PSUPETE said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PSUPETE said...

LiL Ben was shot on the left side of his chest last week and the blood stain\wound was on the left this week...?

Loved how the writers went right after the rules of time travel and even mentioning BTTF. TOO COOL, its like they were reading and listening to the podcasts\blogs.

If Jack goes to help, he saves Ben and his father is a changed man. Seeing the new life side of things patches up old wounds and Ben never goes to the others.

I agree that the end is near for Kate with her character growth. Hear smokie smokie, hear smokie, come on boy.

Great episode, nice that Aaron is with his GrandMum. I gotta admit shedding a tear (like a school girl) when Kate was saying goodbye to Aaron.

Namaste Bitches!!!!!

Razzle Dazzle....lol

Kim and Amiee you ROCK!!!!

PSUPETE from O-town

Keith said...

What a fantastic episode. Personally, I didn't find it all that hard to suspend disbelief... I was on the edge of my seat.

Loved the Hurley-Miles exposition scenes, very Shakespearean.

My big takeaway is that the 815ers are all partly to blame for Ben becoming "Ben" (well, except for maybe Hurley.) Brilliant.

Tha Kid said...

Not the worst episode. I think it accomplished more than the past 4 or 5 episodes.

Kate has been redeemed. Her character has been a joke ever since she started chasing Jack and Sawyer. I think I started disliking her after the episode where they wnt back to Dharmaville to save Jack.

I really like that she came back to rescue Claire. I think that combined with James saying that he's changed and saving Ben for Jules pretty much kills any triangle talk. I am interested in hearing what crazy reasoning Aimee will use this week to argue Kate and James belong together.

Hurley and Miles dialogue was tremendous. The best part was when Jules asks them to leave and Miles tells Hurley to ask him about time travel again.

A lot of the episode was a cop out. Did anyone else cringe when Richard said Ben wouldn't remember any of this?

I remember there was 1 more thing that really pissed me off, but I can't think of it now.

Jordan from the 206 said...

"great episode", "fantastic episode". What is this, a Jay and Jack call in segment? :P

It was ok, I guess. Definitely interesting and held my attention from start to finish. A bit tired, and still sick as a dog. So I'll wait til tomorrow to go more into detail. But the main thing that is sticking out right now is something that bothered me about the ep. Why exactly did Kate, Juliet, and Sawyer want to save Ben so bad? "You can't let a kid die" didn't seem good enough motivation. Ok, maybe Juliet, I can see her saying that. But the the extent? And I guess that means Sawyer makes somewhat sense because he's doing it for her. But why Kate was so determined made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Trying to get Jack to save him, getting mad at Jack for not, giving blood, risking her own life going over to the Others, etc. She was beyond determined to save him. And it just didn't ring true for me. I'm not saying they all should've been like Jack and said "F him" (which I liked btw). But maybe just a tad bit of indifference? Why 3 people who've been tortured by Ben more than anyone would go to such lengths to save him, while the people who don't know his evil future do not, just was strange for me.

Liked the Hurley/Miles stuff. Especially when Hurley stumped Miles about Ben knowing Sayid in the future. Wasn't able to tell whether that was the writers joking about the error in continuity, or if it was a sign that the past can indeed change, and that Ben truly didn't know Sayid in the future when he was being tortured. I'm guessing it was a joke, and that they're pointing it out before the fans do. Not positive though.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Wait. Didn't Alpert say that Ben wouldn't remember anything about what happened? How very convenient to directly address Hurley's point. Oh well.

Rrb said...

I agree with Palmer what happend to Claires moms HUGE MOLE?

Jordan from the 206 said...

Must be the real reason she is in LA. To see a plastic surgeon.

And were we meant to believe that Cassidy was in LA as well? Because Kate definitely seemed to get there rather quick. Not that Cassidy can't also happen to live in LA. But wasn't she in New Mexico last Sawyer knew? I guess we have to believe that Kate looked her up and found out that she now lived conveniently down the road.

Stephanie said...

Jack is the reason Ben turned out to be Ben. He's refusal to help operate caused Kate to do something desperate.

Rrb said...

Or you could blame Kate. She did say sure take the boys innocence, what ever the hell that means!
I think she had cassidy do the surgery?

Herlihy said...

I wouldn't say that this was a great episode, but it had a few great parts.

Kate's confession to Cougar Littleton.
Hurley & Miles' Time Travelling talk.
"Hey, ask me some more questions about time travel"
Juliet having a look down at Jack's crotch when he got out of the shower.
"Welcome back to the land of the living"

:')

Also, did anyone else think that Alpert has lost some weight since the last time we saw him? He looked really gaunt. That's all I could focus on when he was on screen.

PSUPETE said...

This was a show about many people changing:

Sawyer= growing up over the past three years and admitting this to Kate
Jack= starting to speak about the island like Locke does and being the "new Jack" per Kate
Kate= getting away from her selfish ways and caring about others (not "Others"...lol)
Ben= this was the crest or peak of what happens to his personality

Side note: Ben's reaction to Locke being alive would tell me that he didn't kill John because he had to. Or he really didn't believe that he would rise again, putting doubt in his mind (a sign of weekness).

Lauren said...

Call me from J&J's listener feedback section, but I thought it kicked ass! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

I'm starting to like Jack. I never really did all that much before. Maybe it's the lack of whining.

Hurley and Miles-awesome. Couldn't have said it better. They are both hilarious in their own way.

Kate was getting back to her old self this week. I liked that. In the beginning, she was one of my favorite characters. But I am glad Jack called her out on the way she was acting.

Aimee is not crazy. He called her "Freckles," didn't he?? Sawyer and Juliet are BOOOOOOORING...I mean, I want fighting and arguing, and then cage sex, damnit! This is a drama, right? Skater 4eva bitches! Ok, that was douchey, and I do apologize.

I started crying when Kate told "Cougar Littleton" (ha!) that she was going back for Claire and they started playing that music. It gets me everytime. Then when she left Aaron, I started crying like a bitch. Maybe it's because I'm a mother. My husband was laughing at me.

I want to see some more of that temple damnit!

John Locke kicks ass. The look on Ben's face was priceless.

O/T: To the Brits and anyone else who drinks tea: I'm starting to get into it, any suggestions? Thanks!

Sorry for the long post.

Rrb said...

I give huge props to the writers during 1 episode they can make you like any one you hated before. Pretty impresive sometimes it onyl takes 44min.
Juliet last week, Jack and Kate this week.
Also I thought Alperts eyes looked less eyelinerish. You think they found some kind of anti-mascara?

PSUPETE said...

one more Changed person is Roger Linus.

Rrb said...

Child beater is still not redeamed or liked in my view.
Prev. On Lost killed the whole Cassidy reveal JERKS!!!!

memphish said...

I'm wonder if what the Others are going to do is going to involve a time restart of sorts which will explain the memory lapse for both Ben and possibly also for the rest of the DI who take Ben back. That could allow them to "forget" that Ben is the one who sprung Sayid in the first place, something that Roger and the 815ers in DI know. It'll probably me something like Jedi mind control with Obi-Wan (whose name is BEN) and the Stormtroopers.

Holli

memphish said...

So I think Ben's memories of the 815ers helping him are what will be gone which is why he won't have any sympathy for them when they crash. I really think this is going to involve a time reset back to the day before the 815ers flash into 1977 which makes me wonder what will happen to Sawyer, etc. who were already in 1977. The Other (I was really hoping he'd be Paul) says that Richard should talk to Ellie first. That's because Mrs. Hawking is the Time Lord. Richard is going to mess with time which won't make her happy. Then that Other says "if Charles finds out." So Charles' role is different. I bet they've already done whatever they're going to do to Ben to Charles, so Charles will no longer be unique. That's why he'll be so mad.

Holli

andrew. said...

i thought they were just proving my pet cemetary theory correct.

memphish said...

Someone else mentioned Pet Cemetery last night. I'm not familiar with it. What's the jist Andrew?

Holli

Rrb said...

I can help out here man looses son old man knows secret place where kid can come back but kid comes back....Not so write. Insurt scalpel here The only movie that ever scared me in my life!!No shit.
I found The MOLE

Jordan from the 206 said...

Still really do not like the whole convenient "Ben forgetting everybody saving him" explanation. Would've been better for them to just say that he did in fact remember them when they had him prisoner and all this time. And that too would have been dumb.

I gotta admit that I somewhat liked Kate in this episode. At least in her flashbacks. And some somewhat decent acting from Evangeline Lilly for a change. Also liked Jack being all "screw Ben". What the hell is going on here? An ep where I don't loathe Jack and Kate? Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Jordan from the 206 said...

Saw that Obama met up with the Queen of England the other day. They exchanged gifts. He gave her an ipod full of specifically picked out songs. And she gave him a framed painting of herself. Awesome.

Herlihy said...

For a photo, The Queen put her arm around Michelle Obama's back, trying to be polite, Mrs. Obama reciprocated this action and now the British media is trying to make a storm in a teacup. Ridiculous.

Are TLI still recording tonight?

Herlihy said...

Apparently many British men prefer gaming than having sex with their partner.

Yet another reason as to why Britain is failing. Who are these people being interviewed? are they all mental.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Slow day, eh blogspotica?

mb said...

DRUGS.....ARE.....AWESOME people!!!

I love living AFTER the discovery of penicillin! :) This strep throat is TOAST goddammit! James, Jordan - don't know if strep is what you have, but if it is - get thee some Peni-f-ing-cillin. Lovely!

Back to Lost -
I liked the ep. I'd give it 7 out of 10. Really liked Richard taking Ben into that temple, wonder if it's THE temple.
My wife and I totally got choked up when Kate was saying goodbye to Aaron. Awesome that she did the right thing but, ugh, what a gut punch.

And no one else is wondering when the hot chick at the body shop became the chief surgeon?

As soon as I saw Juliet being "Doctor J" again that's exacly what I thought. And Horace KNOWS that it was her who delivered Ethan right? This is developing into a tough plot hole to swallow

RE: Ben surviving the wound and the car ride - I'm in Palmer's camp (that this is easier to buy into than a big sentient cloud of black smoke). If you really want to make this work in terms of the narrative, I guess you could say that obviously, he's NOT "SUPPOSED" to die, OR maybe what happens inside that temple is that he DOES die and the is resurrected. Richard said that he will not remember any of this, will lose his innocence, and will "always be one of us."

Related to this - I was thinking a lapse/gap in memory would explain (other than lying which is perfectly reasonable as well) why he said he was born on the island (Season 3 - don't remember the episode)

have we seen the chick in the grocery store before who was walking Aaron back to try to find his mommy? she looked familiar.

It's far fetched (and she didn't sound Australian at all) but the actress looked like an older version of Claire. She actually kind of creeped me and my wife out.

why Kate was so determined made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I agree that just saying "It's wrong to kill a kid" SEEMS lame in light of their "future" knowledge, but I think Juliet and Kate's (and by persuasion Sawyer's) point was that they feel that Ben needs to be judged on the life he has lived so far, and so far he's a kid. He's NOT Ben "others" Linus yet. It doesn't seem like an easy decision to me to just say "He needs to die".

Ben's reaction to Locke being alive would tell me that he didn't kill John because he had to. Or he really didn't believe that he would rise again, putting doubt in his mind (a sign of weekness).

This has been bothering me. Ben makes SURE that Locke dies by his hand, but keeps it secret so it looks like a suicide, and then tells Jack that Locke has to come back to the island with them. Did he think that by murdering him he wouldn't be resurrected on the island (but the Ajira 6 would still have a dead body along to mimic the "conditions" of 815 and thus help ensure transport back to the island)?

one more Changed person is Roger Linus.

NUH - UH!!!! No fucking way. Not getting on you at all for thinking this - I just completely disagree. I kept saying during his "I'm such a bad parent" speeches, "SHUT THE F UP a-hole!" it's too late, damage done. I have no pity for that poor excuse for a Dad.


MUCH LOVE SASers, much love!

Herlihy said...

"And no one else is wondering when the hot chick at the body shop became the chief surgeon?

As soon as I saw Juliet being "Doctor J" again that's exacly what I thought. And Horace KNOWS that it was her who delivered Ethan right? This is developing into a tough plot hole to swallow"


Did Sawyer just say that they were on a boat that crashed on the Island? Surely the boat would have had a Doctor on board. And while the DI may not have had any physician positions (oh, at least i make myself chuckle) available, she might have had to slum it with the rest of the Mechanics.

Herlihy said...

Also, according to Jorge Garcia, LOST wrapped up filming season 5 yesterday.

How the eff has this season gone s quickly?!

Jordan from the 206 said...

MB, I think strep is what I have. Unfortunately I have no medical insurance, so no doctors or drugs for me. I'm all on my own with this thing. It's been absolutely miserable. Falling asleep constantly, but never for more than an hour. Throat is on fire, have a fever, headache. Just kill me now. Maybe I can go rob a pharmacy?

Trevor McFur said...

Jordan, check your pm's at the forum.

PSUPETE said...

MB, no worries on the Roger Linus disagreement.

I just remember not liking Jin in season one, the way he treated Sun. I thought he was a prick. I love him now. I feel that if Jack were to have saved Ben, he would have been sent back to his dad. With Roger having the "O-shit" moment of almost losing his son (the only link to his wife) seemed to be softening his personality. I feel their relationship would be patched up or at least better and Ben wouldn't grow to be the same Ass that his is now.
The Island is all about redemption. Think about all the characters that have pulled a 180 in their lives....what makes Roger Linus any different (potentially).
As we may find, young Ben will return and be totally changed. He will be even more driven to turn on the DI, as he is no a spy for the Others.

PSUPETE said...

Character 180's: (my opinion)
Sawyer
Kate (after WHH ep)
Jin
Sun
Locke
Charley
Shannon
Mr. Eko
Michael
...........
Damnit I drawing a blank.

Trenton said...

Will TLI be doing the live ustream show today?

mb said...

Well - you make a good point Pete. It is certainly possible that Ben and his father might have had a better relationship and Roger would have changed.

But the thing that I was just thinking about now (that makes me think their relationship doesn't change much) is that Ben ends up killing Roger in the purge (out in the Dharma Van which Hurley restarts 30 yrs later w/Sawyer and Jin), giving him a line like

"for as long as I can remember, I've had to put up with you. And doing that required a tremendous amount of patience."

and then killing him.
So, apparently he returns to the DI at some point - perhaps as a mole?

PalmerEldritch said...

huzzah! caught the tail end of the live recording. you girls had nice hair tonight. good going!

chat wouldnt load though. boo!

Stephanie said...

Jordan, do you know anyone at all who works in a doctor's office? If you were near me, I'd lift some antibiotics for you.

Tha Kid said...

Good show. I logged on late and passed out almost immediately (weird, but I was really tired).

Only things I remember is Kim saying something about getting married to get a passport.

Herlihy said...

Yeah, Kim wants some US citizenship.

She rejected me :(

Chris JC said...

Ben's lucky that he doesn't have situs inversus.

I found it perfectly enjoyable to watch. I remember trying to explain to someone here that Frogurt dying in the past didn't mean he still couldn't come to the Island later so good to see that Hurley has the same confusion.

Watching with friends, one raised his hand and said "Er, I'd like to see what's going on with Locke, please!" so, the timing judgement of where to place his reappearance was probably spot on.

I told him that one of the problems was they've spent four years laying on the WTFs and are now ticking them off. He countered that the episode wasn't answering anything then by the end we had what happened to Aaron, why Kate was back, the answer to whether the future CAN be changed or not, why Ben said he was born on the island when he levelling with Jack back in season 3, what Sawyer whispered in the helicopter, who Kate was calling when Jack asked her back in S4 and whether Ben in the future will recognise Sayid and the rest.

The answer to Ben recognising the 815ers is no, so it's safe to assume that by the time Ben returns to Dharmaville (which he clearly will at some point), our guys will no longer be there.

So, will New Other Amnesiac Ben be told that he has to go back and pose as the son of Roger Linus who he happens to look exactly like? Be schooled in basics of Ben's life but basically pick it up? Will the rest of the DI know how Ben has been saved and this point treat him with suspicion?

And, is Jack really being a jerk if he believes the "Whatever Happened, Happened" theory and knows that Ben survives? I see how they can pass Juliet off as a doctor who happened to arrive at a place where doctors weren't required but a guy who has, according to DHARMA records, nothing in his life to suggest any medical vocation suddenly turning out to be a surgeon: BIT SUSPICIOUS.

Oh, and I like Giacchino as much as the next person with functioning ears but I do wish they'd stop getting him to do long syrupy pieces to accompany weeping etc. They might as well flash the word EMOTIONAL on screen.

That went on a bit, didn't it?

I have never totally disliked an episode of LOST, including that one, and this episode keeps that record going.

Locke and Ben next week, pls. They surely have to after tacking them on the end of that.

Herlihy said...

I don't know about next week, so this is purely speculation, but i assume next week will be a Ben episode. That final scene of the episode would be a total cocktease if they decide to carry on with another episode set in 1977. Also, Locke has already had an episode and so has Sun. I doubt we'll get a Lapidus episode and i don't think we'll get an episode about Caeser or Ilana yet.

So, yeah. I'm hoping for a Ben episode next week.

memphish said...

I wonder if that means we'll find out what Ben did after he left Mrs. H and ended up with a sling before flight 316. I hope so.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

after talking to Mrs. H, Ben got a job as a truck driver and hurt his bicep in an arm wrestling tournament.

Over the Top!

Rrb said...

I put hat on backwards

Jordan from the 206 said...

Awesome Saturday morning styled Watchmen cartoon

Jordan from the 206 said...

Try not getting that song stuck in your head. lol.

Rrb said...

Thanks Palmer this was worth the flashback to Over ythetop

Rrb said...

Foul language above

PalmerEldritch said...

hheheheheheheheh.

that was pretty bizarre, rrb.



so, think ben's getting his whole brain erased? or just the most recent events?

Jordan from the 206 said...

Just the parts that don't jive with past episodes of Lost.

PalmerEldritch said...

"he seems to be suffering from a specific type of memory less that we in the medical field call 'convenient.'"

mb said...

I don't mean this to sound flippant (truly), but considering we are GENERALLY (not consistantly) wrong about our fears of what this show will do (like the fear that Kate will come back and f-up everything immediately or the fear that Jack's going to come back and act controlling), keep in mind that we don't yet know how they are going to handle Ben's memory loss and fit it into everything we've seen (of course I'm not saying this b/c of any spoilers - I actually haven't read them in about a week).
Personally, I am extremely interested to see how they handle this.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh. i hope he remembers everything. more interesting that way.

Chris JC said...

Because of the time theory they have chosen to operate in, that nothing can be changed, that it always happened like this then is it not fair to say that nearly every set of circumstances like this will appear to be overly convenient?

PalmerEldritch said...

your moment of zen:

click me, bitches.

PalmerEldritch said...

oh, just click it already.

Chris JC said...

Spoiler alert, dude!

andrew. said...

Kablamo!

Chris JC said...

I'm joking - it's not really a spoiler. Click with confidence.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Because of the time theory they have chosen to operate in, that nothing can be changed, that it always happened like this then is it not fair to say that nearly every set of circumstances like this will appear to be overly convenient?

True. But it's beyond even that when it's an even more obvious, "Oh crap. We better say this or else we'll entirely contradict ourselves and earlier episodes in the series".

memphish said...

If you'd cropped that picture it would have been better.

Holli

mb said...

Because of the time theory they have chosen to operate in, that nothing can be changed

this is only partially true though. Yes Charlie died, but we didn't know how or when it was going to happen (assuming you believed Desmond when he said "you're gonna die")

But it's beyond even that when it's an even more obvious, "Oh crap. We better say this or else we'll entirely contradict ourselves and earlier episodes in the series"

Not saying you're necessarily wrong Jordan, but example?

Jordan from the 206 said...

The prime example is this Ben losing his memory thing. The writers obviously realized, "shoot, with where the story is going, with ben being friends with all the losties as a kid, and them saving his life, him being such a massive bitch to them, and not recognizing them in the future doesn't exactly compute." Precisely what Hurley said to Miles, and which Miles had no answer.

PalmerEldritch said...

"If you'd cropped that picture it would have been better."

heheheheh. true!



also, TNG fans (and fans of the absurd) check out all of these TNG episode mash-ups.

PalmerEldritch said...

better link

memphish said...

I'm still clinging to the notion that Ben won't really forget what happened as if he were on a soap opera and all we have left is for his evil twin to show up. No, I hope what's going to happen is that the Others can manipulate time back to the day before the 316ers arrive, they prevent the 316ers arriving and thus the shooting never occurs. Whatever happened doesn't happen any more, but it did and now weirdly enough its the Losties who'll have more info than Ben for a change.

You can write it off as a time travel cop out, but it's better than amnesia and I think they can use it to explain how Ben manages to live another however many years it is back in the DI before purging them. It also explains why Roger was not in fact a better dad and worthy of his own son killing him.

I also think that the random Other's dialogue is key. He says first that Richard should check with Ellie who we all assume is Eloise Hawking. Ellie is the time keeper. She's the one that wants to keep people from messing with time, just like she does with Desmond years later. Later the Other says if Charles finds out he'll be pissed. I think that's because a similar thing has been done for Charles' benefit and doing it again will make him less special.

This is all probably just a load of crap, but I losing your innocence and your memory at the same time is kind of a weird combination. So hopefully it will be more than amnesia. I'm still not convinced Ben didn't remember Sayid shooting him. Emerson's performances certainly leave that path open.

Holli

mb said...

I think we're back to the discussion of "Cuselof has a plan" vs. "Cuselof is narratively blindfolded and is making it up on the fly". Again, you might be right, but we don't know.

Plus,
Do we know what Richard meant by "He won't remember any of this"? Does he mean the experiences surrounding getting shot, or his entire DI childhood

Also, Ben very possibly does recognize Juliet - isn't that a fairly plausible reason for his infatution?
And he seems to be familiar enough with his father when he kills him in the purge. So he remembers things not surrounding the shooting perhaps?

Again - I'm not claiming to know for sure that he remembers anything in the future, but I think there's still too many questions to say that they've written themselves into a corner.

Lex said...

Time Overlapping Theory
If our losties don't flash forward to the future anytime soon, they may have to continue on from the time they are in now. If that is the case, they will definitely overlap with themselves, dying after they are born. This is awesome, because this could mean that the Losties could be more connected than they realize. Hear me out on this, it looks like we have three different age groups on the island, and not many in between:
1. Babies/Children (Aaron, Ji-Yeon, Clementine, Baby born in this episode -which I definitely think is Ethan- and Kate and Jack's possible love child)
2. Twenty/Thirty-somethings (Jack, Desmond, Sawyer, Kate, Sun, Jin, Juliet, Miles)
3. Fifty/Sixty-somethings (Christian, Eloise, Locke, Ben, Widmore, Etc.)

My theory is that when our Losties become older, they will screw with the lives of other Losties or themselves. For example, wouldn't it be freakin weird if Sawyer was Locke's father. Even jankier, what if Jack is Christian. It would explain how they are both alcoholic and why Christian pushes Jack to perfection as a surgeon. Also, Juliet could be Eloise, they have very similar personalities and are women of science. Miles could be Sun's father?

I think that Widmore is trying to keep the everyone overlapping with themselves, and Ben is trying to throw a monkey wrench into it, hence the infamous "List"

Jordan from the 206 said...

I just don't see the reason for "he remember any of this" at all. The fact that it followed the Hurley & Miles scene referencing the exact same thing is what makes it rather obvious to me. Yeah sure. Not 100%. But the way it played out.

Jordan from the 206 said...

"I'm still not convinced Ben didn't remember Sayid shooting him. Emerson's performances certainly leave that path open."

Yes. I would much rather that be the case. Even though one could probably go back and nitpick scenes and say, "If Ben already knew so & so, why didn't he...", you could still talk yourself into believing that Ben was working some kind of crazy plan the entire time. And on the whole, it would come off less cheap. At least in comparison to the perceived amnesia route.

Herlihy said...

One of the things I like about Ben is that he's always 7 steps ahead of the competition. For instance, the whole Naomi thing. That was well shocking to us, but obviously Ben knew about it all along and had orchestrated to have Michael be a mole for him.

Surely, if Ben does remember then the scenes with him and Sayid in the Armory of the Swan are a tad poignant. Ben must have been figuring out that Sayid is the same person that shot him way back in 1977 and then figuring out that there was much more to this person than he first anticipated. This could be the reason why he allowed himself to be captured by the 815ers in the first place, to scout the camp and see what Sayid's deal is.

catherine martin said...

I heard Dharmalars in its prime

Another time

another time

Rrb said...

did that just rhmye

Chris JC said...

Yime.






I mean, yes.

Rrb said...

Kates 70's pants make it look like she grew boy parts.

Rrb said...

Chris I don't know why you have a Mearcat(?Spelling)for your avatar but it's F'n awsome! I watched the show a few times and those little critters a re Awsome-ly Funny, and sad at points there always at war? O-shit are they on the island?

Chris JC said...

The meerkat in my avatar is from a slightly convoluted television advertising campaign. He tells the viewer that he is Aleksandr, founder of comparethemeerkat.com but that recently he has had a lot of hits from people looking for cheap car insurance having made an error in trying to go to comparethemarket.com.

Irritatingly, for a creation by a low rent car insurance company, I find him extremely funny and well realised.

Better than that little tosser on the confused.com advert anyway. YOU DON'T DRIVE A CAR! YOU'RE TWELVE!

Stephanie said...

Just when I thought we had seen all the funny images of bacon there were on the internet I come across this.

I don't know what the title is this week.

Stephanie said...

Ok, I watched the promo. If we get more redundant scenes, I'll scream. For example: we see Sayid working for Habitat for Humanity. Ben visits him. John visits him. We learn nothing new from this. Infuriates me.

Herlihy said...

Shimples.

Chris, the confused.com ad? are you by any chance referring to the guy with black long-ish hair? He looks about my age...

Chris JC said...

Yes - that little bastard. He winds me up. I can't justify it in any way, I just can't stand him.

Herlihy said...

Awww. He's really cute. Like when he draws the =) face on his hand with a sharpie.

I would.

Ralph- said...

Happy Birthday Kirk!

Chris JC said...

According to the British Board of Film Classification, the Crank sequel has (at least in the UK) had the "2" dropped, so it's now simply called Crank - High Voltage.

It's been rated 18 like the first one so that puts it in a kind of RoboCop and Watchmen sort of area.

Rrb said...

Couple of LOST things on my mind.
#1Blast door map. Either Redzi..ki was trying to figure out the current state of things on the island of He didn't create the map.
#2 Dr.Juliet I will buy that no one bats an eyelash about her learning how to perform a C-section in the motor pool. IF she said she was the ships Dr., but DHARMA didn't care and made them all take the recruitment test. Then at least you can find it plausable. Any thoughts? The only thing that hurts this idea is that it's kinda strange that Sawyer,Miles,and Jin all took a test and all were put in security? I find that hard to believe. Shouldn't Sawyer be teaching reading or something.

PalmerEldritch said...

thanks, ralph!

margaritas are fantastic.

Chris JC said...

I've known for quite a while that there was a remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street in the offing and that they weren't going to use Robert Englund for Freddy Krueger. I thought that was a shame as he can still do it, he doesn't need to be physically strong looking and, unlike Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees, he has recognisable facial features. Having said that, after seeing Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach in Watchmen, I found myself thinking that he would do a good Freddy.

GUESS WHAT?

Now let's see if my other pick of Josh Holloway as Solid Snake in a Metal Gear movie comes to pass.

Herlihy said...

I think the producers of the new Elm Street wanted to steer away from Robert Englund because him playing the character has become a parody. I know he was only playing the things that he was given, but by the later stages of the film series, he's become totally camp and not scary whatsoever. The first couple of films from the series are still excellent.

I hope the new one is as well.

Chris JC said...

Englund can do scary Freddy - he did it in the original and New Nightmare but yes, in between he mostly got called upon as a pizza-faced camp mincer. Hopefully Haley can be FUCKING TERRIFYING.

It's odd that they didn't have Freddy be particularly camp in Elm Street 2, being that it's officially the most homoerotic mainstream horror film ever according to excellently named gay horror site, CAMP BLOOD.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Wow, way to hit the nail on the head with that one, Chris.

That said, I really hope I never have to see Josh Holloway as Solid Snake. As a huge fan of both MGS and Lost, it would do nothing but take me out of the movie. Josh Holloway unfortunately for him IS Sawyer, and will be Sawyer the rest of his career. Probably due to the reason that it's the only role he's ever been decent in. I really hope Snake is played by an unknown and not some big name actor.

Chris JC said...

What have I hit on the head? That Josh would do good Snake or that Freddy's Revenge is gaytastic?

You know what - I think I'll stick it on. It's also a very funny film.

Chris JC said...

Ah, that I "called" Jackie Earle Haley. Don't mind me - bit slow this evening.

Herlihy said...

i heard that Josh Holloway was going to play to L shaped block in Tetris: The Movie.

PalmerEldritch said...

herlihy, that's interesting casting cuz Evangeline Lilly, Matthew Fox, and Elizabeth Mitchell have also been cast as different shapes. and judging from the cast pics, they seem to be forming some sort of... quadrangle???


good news: your sister bought you the Season 3 LOST Soundtrack

bad news: there's a track named after Achara, the Thai Ladyboy Prostitute

PalmerEldritch said...

also, herlihy, here's the trailer for the tetris movie.

Mr. Bill said...

Breaking Bad was great tonight!

Palmer this is my favorite movie trailer ever!!!