Wednesday, January 21, 2009

Because You left/The Lie: Episode Discussion

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103 comments:

t-dot kim said...

DISCUSS!

andrew. said...

hey guys, i just saw this show Lost. anyone else catch it?

t-dot kim said...

Steph, what's the ***** ****** you were referring to last thread?

Alirio said...

That was sooo a young Charles Widmore who tried to have Juliette's hand cut off..

He kept referring to the island as "My Island"

I'm calling it!

Kablamo!

Mr. Bill said...

This was really a great one, eer I guess 2.

The ceramic nun plane thing and the thing with the bullet being removed by Richard... So many little parts.

Crazy crazy goodness.

Marvin at the beginning...man...coolness.

[ally] said...

all i can remember vividly was sawyer bitch slapping faraday.

other than that, everything is still processing.

Mr. Bill said...

Gimme your shirt...and stop with the brainy gobbledygook....SLAP!

LOL!

andrew. said...

- well, now they really can bring back any character they want. enter Daniel Rousseau. i wonder how many episodes the island losties will be time travelling.

- nice call Alirio. i think he had a name tag, but i didn't catch what it said.

- so with the characters time travelling, can they run into themselves? that's what i liked about Desmond's time travelling, it got rid of that conundrum. I thought for sure that when Locke was sitting by the plane that it was going to be him that rounded the corner with the torch.

- Alpert's little test makes more sense now, but it would have made more sense if the characters were doing the Desmond style consciousness time traveling rather than full body.

Jimmy said...

The show seems to have changed dramatically in style, and mood. Laughed a bit at the exposition. Nestor Carbonell did a good job, I thought.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Uh yeah. The show is totally diff now. Ever since it went all frozen donkey wheel last season, the writing was on the wall. It is now full blown sci-fi. No turning back. I was always one of the ones who was hoping it would continue to be able to shroud the fantastical elements in enough mystery to keep it "semi" believable. Guess I just gotta say, "oh well" and change the way I look at and think of the show. No biggie.

Andrew, you're right. I'm guessing we're going to see a few old dead characters in the coming ep's while the island losties time shift all over the place. Which is good. Because now it makes sense why Rousseau never had any closure when she died. Also, I'm guessing Hurley is going to see some more dead 815ers in his crazy visions. And I'm guessing he'll get his closure with Libby through one as well.

And you know when Faraday is yelling at Desmond before the flash? He says to go to Oxford and see his mother. Who wants to bet his mother is Mrs. Hawkins? Who would be in the area if I'm not mistaken. And who also was engaged in some very Faraday like activities before she met up with Ben at the end of the ep. Spreaking of Faraday. What the hell was he doing back in time working for the Dharma Initiative?

Holy brutal deaths Batman! You got Sayid impaling a dude on a handful of kitchen knives, and then good ol' Frogurt getting a flaming arrow through the chest. Who here didn't just know he was going to die somehow when he was sitting there throwing his bitch fit?

Ok, so who called Jack's # that was in Kate's phone? Come on. Admit it.

Jordan from the 206 said...

New ep of the funny action figure Lost parody. This ep they meet characters from Heroes.

t-dot kim said...

206, beat me to the punch by 20 mins...

I LOVED this return to LOST. I also was not on board at first with the total shift to the sci-fi element, but I can say now that I can deal with it. It could have just been my excitement that the show is back, but I found myself totally into this (these) episode(s). I screamed out loud twice. How BAD ASS is Sayid? (Poor Hurley, caught with his hand in the cookie jar--and he didn't even eat 'em!!)

I'm glad that the story so far hasn't focused on just one character and that we got a chance to see what all the main characters have been up to--(except Claire) since we last left them in May. 2 of my crackpot theories have been blown out of the water in the premiere...actually in the first 5 minutes, lol. "The Others" know/knew about Desmond--even if they hadn't mentioned it Juliet did while explaining the Swan station to Daniel. Also, no Jin being saved by the "rafties". (FROGHURT!)

And pooooor Froghurt! In his debut from the webisodes to the BIG show and he gets shot with a flaming arrow through the heart. (Hummmm, I'm thinking of Bon Jovi to open the next TLI podcast).

t-dot kim said...

Good thing, Cane was cancelled. I'm happy to see Richard Alpert back.

So...does this mean the 815ers are staying still, and the island is moving...or is the island staying still and the 815ers moving back and forth through time?

And...if it's one or the other...does that mean Desmond wouldn't "travel" with the 815ers, but with the island, like Richard? Wait, Juliet is "traveling" with the 815ers. I'M SO CONFUSED!

t-dot kim said...

Wait...wait...what if Ben were still on the island? Would he move with the island or the 815ers? How is Alpert able to do it? Is it because he's time traveling, or because he's been on the island for so long?

Who else laughed at Rose running out of the jungle looking for Bernard? (lol, it was funny to me for a bizarre reason)

Also, WHO THE FUCK WAS THAT BUTCHER?

t-dot kim said...

2 awesome theories so far from Alirio and Jordan.

I didn't occur to me that Mrs. Hawkings could be Faraday's mother. Makes total sense...he said, "Go to Oxford, find my mother, her name is..." Desmond, met her in the London area during the Flashes Before Your Eyes ep. Jordan I think you may be totally right on this one. (and I won't admit that too often)

It also didn't dawn on me that Widmore has been to the island before--good call Alirio that Young Widmore may be the kid threatening to cut off Juliet's hand. I'm not so sure this will pan out to be true, but it's a GOOD observation.

Who thought for a split second Ana Lucia was alive back in the real world? Kinda like in the Planet of the Apes (the Marky Mark remake)...when the Apes were the cops back in altered reality. LOL. However, it's Hurley's imagination (running away with him).

t-dot kim said...

Kablamo! 2x

Ok, i'll stop

Herlihy said...

My head is hurting from all the awesomeness of those two episodes.

Stephanie said...

***** ****** = Night Arrows

t-dot kim said...

LOL!!!

Night arrows! That deserves a...

...Ka (wait for it)





...Kablamo!

memphish said...

The shirt on the guy yelling at Sawyer said his name was Jones. So is one of the other guys Widmore or did Jones change his name to sound more posh?

Holli

Stephanie said...

Why else would the little guy have a pretentious British accent? Only because he's Widmore.

memphish said...

Well it clearly says Jones. And the other guys aren't named Widmore either judging from the screencaps. Are you saying there is only one pompous British ass in the world Stephanie?

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

yeah. definitely says Jones but i suppose he could just be a fan of wearing other people's uniforms. or he could be a british guy who works for Widmore. or a british guy who works anyone else for that matter. :)

definitely thought that maybe Mrs. Hawking could be Daniel Faraday's mum but that'd be a little too cute.

"my mommy's a temporal physicist and so am i!"

Stephanie said...

But in the world of Lost there is only one pompous British dude. That seems too easy for Lost.

Stephanie said...

Just like are we supposed to assume the baby of Pierre Chang is Miles because they are the only two Asians(other than Sun and Jin)?

Anonymous said...

That baby didn't look asian to me, though.

Stephanie said...

Hmm. Really? Maybe I wasn't paying attention. Gotta watch again.

Stephanie said...

Yep, that baby looks pretty Asian to me.

Stephanie said...

Ok, according to Chang/Candle there are rules that can't be broken. Did Daniel break the rules by talking to Desmond? Does that change things therefor bringing on negative consequences?

PalmerEldritch said...

that baby could be in the pit with Horace.

that British dude could be unrelated to Widmore.

Mrs. Hawking could be unrelated to Faraday.

but it is more fun to theorize! :)

memphish said...

Most importantly Richard Alpert looked damn good with those glasses on.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

are there "rules?" or is there just logic?

when traveling through time, you can't change your past. because time in LOST time is linear (we think).

so, anything you do back in time is stuff that your "present" has already been affected by. you can't blow up the four toe statue cuz Jinn saw the four toed statue.

but it could have four toes instead of five because you went back in time and stole a toe from it before Jinn saw it. :)

but Desmond is either A) an outlier because of his time travel or B) can be messed with because his consciousness travels through time and you could be interacting with his jumped consciousness.

looks like it's A but would make more sense to me if it was B.

anyhow, Faraday talks about the logic side of things. but Chang talks about "rules" and Mrs. Hawking talks about elastic or fluid (self-correcting) time. right?

but she also mentions that Desmond can't buy the ring cuz he didn't the last time. which is the Faraday/logic thing. hmmm...

interestingly, the Future seems to be elastic or self-correcting because Desmond would get future flashes about Charlie and he could save Charlie (disproving a linear predetermined future which would say because you saw Charlie die near seagulls he WILL die near seagulls) but Charlie had to die eventually (possibly proving the self-correcting theory in regards to the future which would say because you saw Charlie die near seagulls, he has to die but not necessarily near seagulls). ack!!!!

so... past -> Faraday/logic and future -> Hawking/self-correcting?

or is the past self-correcting too?

anyhow, Desmond is magic. so, you can at least affect the future through him (whether or not the future is predetermined). blargh!

memphish said...

I can't decide if I want to engage in a similar train of thought, or just give up and enjoy shirtless Sawyer.

Holli

Stephanie said...

With the donning of the glasses, Alpert has topped Sawyer to become the hottest guy on the island.

And whatever palmer said was interesting too.

PalmerEldritch said...

one good thing about shirtless sawyer was that he wasn't super ripped this time.

so, a few weeks in the gym, a good waxing (KELLY CLARKSON!!!!), and some orange paint and he wasn't too unrealistic a role model. besides his big arms.

memphish said...

He might not have been ripped, but he was nice and shiny. I did notice that Sayid has not waxed his chest. And Jack's back sweats when he has DTs.

Holli

Stephanie said...

What does Kelly Clarkson have to do with this?
Josh could use a few more crunches. He must not be seeing his trainer anymore. His neck is getting bigger again. Less weight, more reps.

memphish said...

Oh yeah, and there was one incredible Juliet boob shot when she was bending over to find the Swan hatch. I shouted BOOBS when it happened.

Holli

Stephanie said...

Back sweat. That's the grossest.

memphish said...

So is Daniel at the Orchid the same one that's at the beach with Sawyer or one from Oxford or the one from the Comic Con video or other?

Holli

Ralph- said...

the only thing i can think of, is that those world war 2 dudes listened to that glen miller song that was floating around the island, dropped their knife that anna lucia found and showed up by submarine.

also, how many things from season 2 showed up in this episode? cause they used a lot of season 2;s mythology, which is rad that the "least popular" season is getting it's due and that the writers are not abandoning some of those ideas.

i am gonna go to work, discuss it with my co-workers and come up with some good theories for the show tonight.

lost is still fresh after 5 seasons. wow!!

PalmerEldritch said...

"So is Daniel at the Orchid the same one that's at the beach with Sawyer or one from Oxford or the one from the Comic Con video or other?"

Yes.

It's our Daniel. At some point in his relative future, but in the absolute past. To borrow nomenclature from internet links.

so, at some point yet to happen to our heroes, they shift to the way-past and Daniel goes undercover to get near the Orchid's "negatively charged exotic matter."

memphish said...

This is an interesting quote from Damon and Carlton about Strangers in a Strange Land.

What's interesting is, it's almost a time travel conundrum, which is, if I could go back in time and be more convincing about saying, 'I will write this pilot, but we need to be six years and out,' and therefore those episodes don't get written, would I do it? The answer is no. The journey is the journey. But more importantly, if "Stranger in a Strange Land" -- which, universally, is (considered) the worst episode we ever produced -- had not been produced, we would not have been able to convince the network that, "This is the future of the show: how Jack got his tattoos. Everything we've been saying for two years about what's to come, is now all here on the screen. You argued that an hour of Matthew Fox in emotionally-based conflicts, it doesn't matter what the flashback story is, it'll be fine. But now that we're doing his ninth flashback story, you just don't care."

We can't go back and apologize for the creative mistakes that we made, because we had to make them. If that episode hadn't been made, we weren't able to get a notes call that said, "We don't like this episode," and where we could then say, "We don't like it, either, but it's the best we can do if we're not moving the story forward. And we're now at a point, guys, where we can't move the story forward." And they asked, "Well, what would you do if we allowed you an end date?" And we said, "Give us an end date, and we'll tell you what we'll do." And the conversations then reached a new pitch.


So thank you Bai Ling. Thailing.

Holli

PalmerEldritch said...

Bai Ling + SuperBowl Fever = ???

Robert said...

Hate to be the downer of the group, but, eh. I have made my feelings known on this forum about drifting away from 'characters' and into sci-fi more and more. It's obvious where we are headed. I had a very long day and actually found myself falling asleep (which I guess makes me 'kick-ass like Sayid as he was also asleep during most of the episode). :) I miss the feel of season one.

Robert

PalmerEldritch said...

i can see how it would not be everyone's cup of tea. i also think it will "slow down" a bit with the scifi stuff. it seemed to do so a bit in the second episode.

i think these episodes were set up for this season. here are all the rule changes and new situations and groupings of characters. now, we'll let them go and see what happens.

on another note, did you get your roof patched up and covered by insurance after the hurricane?

Desiree' said...

Andrew...I also thought that when Locke was sitting at the plane, it was going to be him coming around the corner.

Alirio...I tend to agree with you about the soldier being a young Whidmore.

I also loved Hurley's explanation for everything that happened.

Anyways, great 2 episodes.

-Desiree'

Desiree' said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Desiree' said...

PalmerEldritch..."i think these episodes were set up for this season. here are all the rule changes and new situations and groupings of characters. now, we'll let them go and see what happens."

Here is a video interview with Damon and Carlton explaining that exactly:

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612_20245764,00.html?bcpid=4396297001&bclid=4370457001&bctid=8633859001

Well, I don't know how to make a link. You can copy and paste!

PalmerEldritch said...

woah. awesome link. good stuff!

thanks.

welcome to the board, desiree'! :)

PalmerEldritch said...

p.s. http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox has The Wire (ALL of it) on DVD for $81.99 today.

p.p.s. never saw it but andrew. and jordan love the holy heck out of that show, right?

andrew. said...

- re: Holli's question about Farraday.
The Orchid video does bring up some questions because it does imply that the island's "casimir effect" does produce two bunnies thus it implies that there may be more than one copy of our Timies (tm) on the island at any given time.
I was ready to write that possibility off because obviously Farraday's rules about Sawyer not being able to meet Desmond before they actually met probably precludes past-Sawyer from encountering future-Sawyer too. but those bunnies...

- good call on mrs. Hawking being Farraday's mum. Although he doesn't have her Irish accent. I can't see Mrs. Hawking without thinking of her role on the Showtime series "Brotherhood" where she was a real piece of work.

- I tend to think that Alpert is special, sort of like Mrs. Hawking, and exists outside of time, although I'm a little confused by him telling Locke that the next time they meet he won't recognize him.

- What's with Charlotte's illness? I had this feeling the whole episode that she had died during the Dharma purge, but i can't really come up with a plausible explanation.

- I love Hurley as comic relief but i don't like it when they play the silly music and make his scenes into a comedy, like they did when Hurley's dad was making his sandwich & sitting down to some Expose'.

- I usually get annoyed with theories like asian baby must = Miles (the worst of which was Walt = Mr. Ecko) but there is some plausibility to this one because there is an effort to tie the freighties' back stories to the island somehow.

- i was excited to see Frank Lapidus. I figured that they didn't need to have him back but i'm really glad they did. I hope he plays a significant part for the rest of the show, maybe tied back to Abaddon's character.

- "Libby says Hi."

- So, with the others being installed in strategic places back in the real world it raised a couple of questions. What is the others' end game? Are they trying to fix the time travelling island, or is there some greater result of returning the Oceanic losties, Like some sort of Blofeldian plot? Were the others installed before or after the turning of the donkey wheel? Are the others that pre-dated Dharma (ie. not Ben or Juliet) immune to the time travel somehow? Was Cindy installed on Oceanic 815, and the big can of worms that that opens?

- During the clip show Damon & Carlton made an interesting observation about the others being sort of like hermit crabs that would chase off any newcomers and then use their stuff, acting like it had always been theirs. They used the example of the book club, like the others didn't have houses or modern ovens or Stephen King novels for that matter, but they got used to the idea very quickly and adopted the appropriate behavior. It gave me a very odd, invasion of the body snatchers kind of vibe.

- i agree that there was definitely a different tone last night, but i felt that last year as well and i think they came back to the Lost we know and love pretty quickly. Obviously no matter what i'm invested.

andrew. said...

- Palmer. i got myself the Wire boxset for Christmas and i've been rewatching from the beginning. I'm halfway through season 3 now. It's even more awesome than I remember.

- Welcome Desiree'!

memphish said...

Glad to see you over here Desiree!

I was listening to Jay and Jack and someone brought up the shots that Desmond took in the Hatch and that some Dharmites might have been taking as well. Does that explain why the rest of Locke's group didn't travel when he did? Though Juliet traveled and she probably would have taken shots, though not within the last 8 days. It's very odd to me that Locke is alone that first time when he was with a group that should include other 815 survivors such as Cindy and the kids plus another 8 or so Tailies.

Holli

memphish said...

Read the headline and the 2nd paragraph of this.

Holli

andrew. said...

- "i blew it"

- consider your mind blown dude: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html?full=true

Malcolm said...

that was such a great episode. i really like the time travel stuff, but it seems like a cheap way for the writers to reveal the pasts of dead characters. i can see us seeing danielle's backstory this way. and when farraday was banging on the hatch door, i was totally expecting radzinski to open up, and kidnap him or some shit. how cool would that be? it was fun seeing ethan and the plane crash, but im a little mixed about desmond's time travel lady. its cool that she's there, but it seemed forced in.

Malcolm said...

so, do we know for sure if the dan we saw in this episode was the same one that was on the zodiac boat? where were all the redshirts?

and was daniel a brit? he was in Massachusetts, but he taught at oxford. i think it would be cool if ms hawkins was dans mom though.

Robert said...

Thanks for asking, Palmer. Yes all repairs have been done but with wind and rain damage, the deductible is usually 2% of the appraised value of the property. We had nowhere near that much damage. Paid for with my own dime.

Robert
P.S. Flew recently and was amazed at the amount of still unrepaired roofs in the greater Houston Area. Money is tight as we all know.

Also, why is Aimee still from Little Rock and not OKC? I thought she was making a big move.

Jimmy said...

Good stuff on the blog today :)

One thing I think is getting to be overused is all this business of not revealing someones face. Dr Candle at shows opening...Mrs Hawking walking around in her Jedi cloak...it gets pretty old. Same also applies to the shot at the start of the cameraman...just enough of his face and hair to make you think that Sawyer was back in time, then a fake out...such a lame teaze, really.

Stephanie said...

Oh my. I just got the "Alpert gives Locke the compass" scene.

PalmerEldritch said...

i think Frogurt was on the Zodiac with Daniel. they were both subsequently with ToplessSawyer so i think it's safe to assume that he's our Daniel. of course, it'd be cool if everyone on the raft were doubled by the Casimir Effect like the rabbits. :p

and i also was really hoping for Radzynski. nobody ever met him so it'd be safe/possible for them to visit him in the Hatch.

and, yeah, Daniel was in Essex, Massachusetts in his first scene. so, is his mom is Massachusetts, England, or some place altogether different? say... Los Angeles with her Apple ][+ computer? ;)

PalmerEldritch said...

did you get that Locke has to give it to Alpert (twss) the next time they meet which will be Locke's relative future but Alpert's past?

or are you wondering if Locke will give Alpert his compass and some other $#!T in the past and then Alpert will go find foster-kid Locke and ask him which stuff was his? :)

perhaps in an attempt to change the future? but the future can't be changed so Foster-Locke chooses the wrong stuff?!!! ack!!! :p

fun.

Stephanie said...

My mind is blown.

I'm going on the assumption that Jin is alive. Where is he?

[ally] said...

Did anyone else watch the recap before the episode Darlton was saying that Sun believes that Jin is dead. So are we to assume that means he's alive?

I've always believed he's alive. So I just hope they were unintentionally confirming.

mb said...

Robert - I don't believe Aimee's big move has yet happened - still coming - right Aimee?

RE: Sam Adams (Portland's Mayor)
(sigh) what a disappointment. Sorry for a mini-rant here as a Portlander, but it's always amazing to me how difficult it apparently is for male politicians to keep it in their pants. We'll see what happens - it's all very up in the air at this point.

RE: LOST
Well count me into the camp of "Loved it and was glued to the TV last night". I was joking with my wife though that, before last night, I didn't think the show could get any more convoluted and still pull off good drama narrative (and I know some may think they DIDN'T), but I thought that, yet again, TPTB took the show to yet another level and I am more hooked than I have been since season 1.

So, I'm EXTREMELY interested in what Ms. Hawking was doing (whether or not she is Dan' s mom - which I think is a cool idea, and is very possible). That pendulum that was swinging across a map of the pacific ocean was the thing (sci-fi/theory-wise) that stuck in my head the most. Here are some images of 'The HAWKING CAVE' and it looks like that pendulum has plotted several points across the ocean, and she has similar points plotted on the map on the 70s-esque computer too. Maybe the island is moving in space as well as time and these are possible destinations? Or maybe these are wormhole spots which end up at the island? Either way this would make Yemi's plane crash make more sense (i.e. how it got there when it was nowhere near the south pacific or Indonesia where Penny found the 815ers).

So, it seems that we are seeing some of who Ben hangs with off-island. Looks like there's a much more extensive network of people off-island than I had previously guessed. I am pondering all of Andrew's question and beginning to now think that Widmore is indeed a Blofeldian-like person trying to find and own/exploit the island and Ms. Hawking, Ben and the Others are his foil.

so much more to comment on that has been said here - so much to process...

Jordan from the 206 said...

"One thing I think is getting to be overused is all this business of not revealing someones face."

Too right Jimmy. I said the same thing to a friend while watching the episode(s). I think they used this technique maybe 4-5 times. Even more if you count all the times mysterious people were walking in the jungle.

"p.p.s. never saw it but andrew. and jordan love the holy heck out of that show, right?"

That would be correct. If it were somehow possible for a man to get pregnant with the unborn seed of his favorite tv show of all time, this would be the show I would lose my girlish figure for. I would totally buy that box set had I not already purchased each season individually. As Andrew is doing now, I am looking forward to going back and re-watching the series. Actually I'm putting it off, so as to continue to have something so awesome to look forward to.

Jordan from the 206 said...

First off, let me admit that I've never been a huge Sun fan. I dunno, something about her has just always rubbed me the wrong way. She's always seemed very selfish and distant, and very stubborn (even with Jin at times). She seems to give others way too hard of a time for their mistakes, while not expecting to be treated the same for her own. Whatever, I've just never loved her. So when she was very stern with Kate, and seems to be buddying up with Widmore, that was just more reason for me to jump on my Sun hate train. But I just listened to J&J and Jack had a pretty good crackpot theory. He said he thinks that Sun is actually working for Ben right now. That Ben has her purposely siding with Widmore, and planted the idea for Widmore to go after Kate. Thus pushing Kate (who was very comfortable with her home life with Aaron) to do what she does best, run. With the hope that this will help their effort to get her to go back to the island. I gotta say, even to a non-Sun fan like me, that makes sense.

PalmerEldritch said...

Sun is evil


KABLAMO!!!

mb said...

Jordan loves The Wire so much he wants to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant

clementinesdaddy said...

I agree that Sun is trying to "scam" Widmore, but i am not sure that Ben is involved yet. For sure Sun is trying to get to Widmore because he was the direct/indirect cause of Jin's (supposed) death. Also, wouldnt Sun realize that Widmore is probably one of the only people that knows how to go about tracking down the island since he had done it once before?

mb said...

Re: Sun - perhaps evil, perhaps...

hot though :)


"She seems to give others way too hard of a time for their mistakes, while not expecting to be treated the same for her own"

interesting observation - although what examples besides her scene with Kate last night are you pointing to?

and RE: the Kate/Sun scene last night, I'd actually have a harder time believing that the character would NOT harbor resentment toward Jack & Kate (and I would think Frank really) - TPTB have certainly built up the Jin/Sun story to illustrate their genuine bond, which makes her loss more powerful.

We would all like to think that, in a similar situation, we'd have perspective, but I doubt it. I find her resentment to be more believable than forgiveness.
Also, all the O6's off-island stories are about downfall thus far (setting up their return to the island of course).

Dammit - Jin has to survive...somehow
:/

Desiree' said...

I agree that they are overusing the whole don't show the person's face technique. I was pretty sure that it was Marvin Candle before I saw his face, but I was definitely sure it was Mrs. Hawkins before I saw her face. That one I thought was very obvious.

Desiree' said...

Also, I like Sun. I think that at the beginning we were supposed to think she was this fragile submissive wife, but she is not. She has an air of grace that no other character has, and she is very strong. Remember when she paid off/threatened Jin's mom? And when she stood up to her father? I think that Whidmore may have something to worry about with her.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Oscar nominations are out for those interested. Ben Button led the way with 13 noms, while Slumdog got 10. Here's the nominees for the big 3 categories.

BEST PICTURE
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
"Frost/Nixon"
"Milk
"The Reader"
"Slumdog Millionaire"

BEST ACTOR
Frank Langella, "Frost/Nixon"
Sean Penn, "Milk"
Brad Pitt, "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
Mickey Rourke, "The Wrestler"
Richard Jenkins, "The Visitor"

BEST ACTRESS
Anne Hathaway, "Rachel Getting Married"
Angelina Jolie, "Changeling"
Melissa Leo, "Frozen River"
Meryl Streep, "Doubt"
Kate Winslet, "The Reader"

Jordan from the 206 said...

"interesting observation - although what examples besides her scene with Kate last night are you pointing to?"

I wasn't really even talking about the scene with Kate. Mainly referring to Sun's character as a whole throughout the show. For example, at times she has been extremely upset with Jin for various things he has done/not done. Yet we find out that she was flat out cheating on his ass back in the real world. It's almost a shock to her that he could be upset with her. Then you have how she utterly resented Sawyer and Charlie for abducting her (which is totally understood). However, she straight up kills a that Colleen chick for really no good reason, and expects no recourse after. Her character is extremely grudgeful when wronged. Yet she never expects the same treatment when she wrongs others. But it could just be me. How I view her. Even in her more heartfelt moments, I don't seem to buy her as 100% genuine.

memphish said...

I haven't seen anything on that list and figure I won't see but maybe one of them before it hits my DVD player. Which 1 should I find the time to go see? Keep in mind I'll need a babysitter, so it has to be realllly worthy.

Holli

clementinesdaddy said...

Jordan,

Yep. Definitely see where your are coming from. Especially with the whole affair she had in Korea.
Although she isn't my favorite character either, I definitely think that this is going to be the year of the "girlz"! Between Sun on the hunt for revenge/closure/reunion with Jin...Kate doing whatever it takes to protect Aaron... and my gut feeling tells me that Juliet will become one of the main forces on island... The Lost girlz are going to show their muscle this season!

Stephanie said...

Holli, see Slumdog and The Wrestler though I doubt The Wrestler would be something you'd like. On second thought don't see it. See Slumdog and Frost/Nixon. Stick The Visitor in your queue. It's out on DVD.

Jordan from the 206 said...

Holli, the only one I would for sure say to see is Slumdog. Just see it.

mb said...

RE: Sun

I do see her tendency toward duplicity - w/the affair and lying about speaking English in preparation for leaving Jin, though I guess both her and Jin were less that honest with each other in their pre-island life. Actually, she's pretty much on par with Kate and Juliet as well in the honesty department.
So she's a bit of an enigma I guess for me. On one hand I can justify most of her actions (i.e. I think I might have shot Colleen if the Others had me cornered on a boat), but at the same time - she has a history of lying. I'm pretty interested to see what her plan and motivation is now.

tha Kid said...

2 things. The 2nd is a rant.

First to ALIRIO. I like your theory, but if you want to guess random people why not guess Future Aaron? I see your "MY ISLAND" thing, but the guy didn't have a British Accent (from what I remember). I can see Aaron becoming the new head to the DHARMA INITIATIVE after he gets back to the island.

2nd MB, I was gonna ask how you could pick SUN (SON) as the most changed character. The earliest thing we see her do is break the glass ballerina and blame it on the maid. She blackmails her dad to give her money to pay off JIN's mom who she then threatens (why wouldn't she just threaten her without giving her money). This leads to JIN having to WORK for her dad. Then she cheats and plans to leave Jin after ruining the poor guy's life. She then possibly kills that guy she slept with. On the island she waits until she is outed about her English (it's life or death, I think it's time to admit to speaking English). Then she kills that chick on the boat.

No one really hates Son, but she is one of the main evil character on Lost IMHO. I always thought she was annoying, but the Glass Ballerina episode super made me hate her. Jin even told her to give the money back!

Ok, sorry for the rant.

Tha Kid said...

My bad. She actually spoke English when Jin was getting attacked. So she wasn't outed per se, but she did wait until the absolute last minute.

Chris JC said...

I've seen it now. Good stuff. In the interests of helping with the theorising:

Widmore is Australian, not British.

Oxford is not in the London area.

[ally] said...

Jordan loves The Wire so much he wants to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant

that's the funniest thing i've ever heard. i like The Wire too, but i guess i don't love it. LOL

Jordan from the 206 said...

Chris, If I remember correctly, London is about an hour/hour and a half away from Oxford. In the US, where people commute longer distances on a daily basis, that constutes as "in the area". At least enough for the rational used earlier.

Herlihy said...

Why did that person keep spelling Sun wrongly after spelling it correctly the first time.

Chris - Lostpedia says that Charles Widmore originates from the UK, so i'm going to stick with that. It's not been mentioned in the show that he's from Down Under. There's nothing that prohibits an actor from doing a (bad) English accent.

Also, from my recollection and warped view of UK geography, what with me being a northerner and suchlike, but, isn't Oxford relatively close to the London area? By close i mean within a two hour travelling distance? It's not implausible for her to be Mummy Farraday.

Herlihy said...

Just to clarify, I forgot i was typing this post for ages because i got distracted by my friend asking me who was born on my birthday... So i was just a bit lax. Sorry Jordan.

FYI, the only interesting people were Zoe Bell and Danny DeVito.

Jordan from the 206 said...

And to think people though Joaquin Phoenix was crazy for giving up acting.

memphish said...

Glad you called Chris on the Oxford in the area of London thing Jordan. I was going to do the same.

Holli

Alirio said...

My theory that this "Jones" person is Widmore goes as follows.

Jones arrives on the island as a young military man, he realizes what the island is capabel of and he goes rogue/AWOL and decides to make it his.

Over time the others chose to have Ben be their leader... hence the "What you have you took from me, boy" line in the Widmore vs Linus scene last season.

Once the island/Jacob convinces him to save the island by turning the donkey-wheel and he finds himself unable to return, he realizes that he must change his name to Widmore to avoid being identified as the military guy who's gone missing...

I'm sticking to that one until the show proves me wrong... Which with MY luck will be in about six days time :-/

Tha Kid said...

Herlihy,

I spelled Sun incorrectly 1 time!

Tha Kid said...

Alirio,

I believe Widmore is linked to Dharma. Dharma was "exploiting" the island with its experiments, etc. I don't think he turned the wheel or was leader of the others at any point. Rather I believe Ben and the others found a way to hide the island after the purge so that Widmore couldn't find the island.

Herlihy said...

2nd MB, I was gonna ask how you could pick SUN (SON) as the most changed character.

No one really hates Son, but she is one of the main evil character on Lost IMHO.


HAH!

Tha Kid said...

What do people think about Ben and Mrs. Hawkins working together?

I originally thought Hawkins and Widmore were aligned to get Desmond on the island.

Tha Kid said...

It doesn't count when it's in parenthesis!

Tha Kid said...

lol

PalmerEldritch said...

i read that as "What do people think about Ben and Mrs. Hawkins getting together?"

like a new 'shipper movement!

Linus\Hawkins = Linkins!

mmm mmm good!

especially if she's also Faraday's mother. ;)

memphish said...

I was really hoping the Oscar noms were going to get Slumdog a wider release here in town -- but no.

Holli

Jordan from the 206 said...

Holli, I saw somewhere that it was now in wide release. Guess Memphis isn't considered "wide" enough.

Tha Kid said...

WTF!?!?!??! Ok. I am currently watching Lost again (including the 1 hr special before).

Russo's distress signal has been looping for 16 years.

Horace tells John that he has been dead for 12 years.

Horace died in the purge. How did Russo not die in the purge if she was there during it?

Any ideas?

Chris JC said...

"Chris, If I remember correctly, London is about an hour/hour and a half away from Oxford. In the US, where people commute longer distances on a daily basis, that constutes as "in the area"."

I appreciate that - I often travel the same sort of distance to get into my company's office.

It's just that I got the impression that people were suggesting that Desmond might go to Oxford and after a bit of wandering about, happen upon Mrs Hawking's ring shop in London (like you might wander into Kent if you're deep into South East London).

I wasn't playing "laugh at the Americans" - it's not how I operate (and frankly I would make some hugely embarrassing mistakes about US geography if pressed on it). I just thought it would help.

Widmore's still a posh Australian, but if it helps, the young guy whose name badge said something that wasn't "Widmore" also sounded like a posh Australian.

Chris JC said...

"Horace died in the purge. How did Russo not die in the purge if she was there during it?"

Because she wasn't a member of the DHARMA Initiative, so wasn't in the barracks, where The Purge happened but was probably wandering about setting traps or chilling in her mad little bunker.