Well, Well, Well guess who the real Sawyer is....OR IS HE? Join Ben and Ralph as they discuss this very special Locke-Centric, on island flashback. Ralph makes a pretty bold statement as far as his opinion of the episode, while Ben blows his mind with some earth shattering theorising. Jimmy delves deeper into Locke's theme and we get some fantastic calls on the Dharmaline.
Playlist:
Tropicalia - Beck
Heaven is One Step Away - Eric Clapton
Don't Get Lost in Heaven - The Gorillaz
Locked Out Again - Michael Giacchino
Here's That Rainy Day (Koop Remix) - Astrud Gilberto & Koop
Pennies From Heaven - Louis Prima
Carnival of Souls - Combustible Edison
Click To Listen:
The Brig
111 comments:
Took a little bit longer tonight, had some trouble with editing, BUT it is only an hour later than normal and we are at our 13th or so week in a row. i am freaking tired right now. Have a good weekend, i will be around.
sleep tight.
first
Nice one Ralph
My usual Saturday morning routine: stumble to the computer, hit refresh on iTunes, get shower, load Dharmalars onto iPod, finish getting dressed, listen on drive to work. I'm getting kinda used to this.
you got Krulled and didn't enjoy it?
Great podcast again but I cannot agree with Ben that A-Coop was the smoke monster.
Ha'way the Lads!
About to listen to the latest and greatest "Dharmalames"...haha
Steph, I work Saturdays too...for 8 years now I have. not the most fun...oh well.
- SadAce
Sadace, it's better than Mon-Fri 8-5, I suppose.
I kinda like Ben's theory that Coop is the smoke monster. It might explain the conflicting stories about his arrival to the island. Did Eyeliner Richard bring him or did Locke will him there?
Morning. Getting ready to listen. I've come up with a Cooper on Island theory. Warning, it's long, but here it is.
Ben insists Locke brought Cooper to the Island at least 3 times which leaves everybody with a headache.
Now the obvious explanation of how Cooper got there is that Mittelos brought him there the same way they brought Juliet, but why would they do that? And is it not the case that bringing him to the Island would have had to be accomplished pre-Purpling. Everything we've heard from Tom and Mikhail suggests that since the Purpling you can't return to the Island on purpose.
So did Ben have him brought there? I'd like to suggest that he did not, but that Cooper's presence on the Island is a con on Ben being perpetrated by the non-Ben faction which I think includes Mikhail and Alpert.
Ben's problems started when the Others learned that a man on the plane couldn't walk before he got to the Island and could as soon as he crash-landed. How did the rank and file Others learn this about Locke?
The obvious first answer has to be Mikhail who was tasked by Ben to gather the information on the LOSTies. Alpert was in Florida when the plane crashed. I think Mikhail contacted Alpert before he left for the Island with the information about Locke, saw the opening those who wanted a change had been looking for and Alpert brought Cooper to the Island when he returned then told Ben Locke conjured him through the box.
There you have it, a non-conjuring, non-Smokey explanation for Cooper on the Island. Off to listen.
Holli
Holli - where do you come up with this stuff? I'm with you all the way on this one. I'm convinced Alpert is part of another faction and great call on Bakunin.
In other news the Queen is at the Kentucky Derby this weekend - I don't know why I find that amusing.
Elias, I have a sick mind that was challenged by all your "it can't be a box" talk yesterday.
I wonder how the Queen's hat will fare at the Derby? Is she going to Taco Bell afterwards for Cinco de Mayo?
Holli
'Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is scheduled to attend the 2007 Derby in the course of a state visit to the United States of America, fulfilling a lifelong dream of hers.'
Is she going to park the Royal Pickup in the infield?
Holli,
i like your others schism theory. there's still a couple of points i can't iron out.
1> Anthony Cooper's statement that the first thing he saw after the paramedic and everything going black is Locke. So unless they kept him unconscious for weeks, then he would have to have been recently grabbed.
2>Ben seems to be playing Locke, leaving the tape recorder where he can find it, putting on the show for the others with Locke and AC, feeding him all of the special crap... so why does he want Locke to kill AC? If Ben thinks AC was conjured by the island, does he really believe that it wants Locke to kill AC? When he saw Anthony Cooper "conjured by the island" did he know who he was? Did he come pre-bound and gagged or did Ben assess the situation and take that precaution himself?
- sorry to say that i don't like the Anthony Cooper = the smoke monster theory (haven't heard the Dharmalars yet though, convince me Ben) mostly because i don't like the idea that the the Smoke Monster will sit there and tell tons of lies. For the same reasons i didn't like the Mikhail scene at the cowboy station, when you have characters monologue about central questions of the show and then turn around and say its a lie, you've got a show where nothing progresses because everything can be taken back.
-also i don't know that the smoke monster would let Sawyer choke it to death or play dead. (i think the Shannon/Boone scene with her dead body was more the work of the paste than the smoke monster)
andrew.
!feliz cinco de mayo! el dia que los estadounidenses celebran que los mexicanos no son franceses.
p.s. doesn't the Queen being at a horse race necessitate a Camilla joke?
Ok, so if Locke is special, would Ben want to keep his people from knowing about his presence on the island? Not that I want all the questions answered, I just want somethings be made clearer. All this vagueness is driving me crazy.
doesn't the Queen being at a horse race necessitate a Camilla joke?
or a Catherine the Great joke?
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2004/03/12/camilla.jpg
New Dharmalars! listening now...
rolph, boner, i hope you guys are going to check out Free Comic Book Day out there in California. i'm off to the local comic book store (20 minutes away) and will be listening to you guys Dharmalarizing in the car. thanks for week 13 (or so)!
I enjoyed the end, Ka-blamo!
Holli, awesome stuff!
i like it more than ben's, cause that way i dont have to rethink all of my notes.
just getting the podcast... nice :)
is cindy brianwashed? or has she been working with the others all the time and was an insider for the plane (oceanic 815)?
Did Locke say Nice Eyeliner?
Jimmy.....Brilliant!
Andrew, the whole A Coop timing thing is a giant mystery. Of course we have no clear understanding of how long it takes to get to the Island, how long OJ laced with tranquilizers work etc. I agree, how and where they kept A Coop is a puzzlement.
I think the tape recorder for Locke is another way for Ben to get rid of Locke and maintain his own control of the Others. The tape recorder gives Locke a very good reason to leave the Others and go back and warn the LOSTies. It's a clear test of Locke's loyalties.
I think Ben's biggest weakness is that he underestimates the LOSTies. He adapts pretty quickly once he recognizes the mistake like with Jack pulling the great Kidney Sac manuever in I Do. This is another under-estimation. Locke will have managed to warn the LOSTies and still return with a dead A Coop. Ben will have to react again.
I think the plan to steal the pregnant women is a ruse by Ben and that as Handsome Jack of Jay and Jack has stated, this is Ben's way of getting rid of Juliet.
Holli
And thanks Ralph for the Blogspot shoutout at the end of the podcast.
I'm here to report that my mouthwash is gargly and my water is watery. Likewise my jello is wobbly and my fluids bodily.
Holli
Howdy all. Steph said to show up on the weekend, so here I am. I actually work on Saturdays myself. Yes, it totally sucks.
Seeing as it's Cinco de Mayo, I went to fakenamegenerator.com and got myself a hispanic name for the day. Here it is:
Francesco Ordóñez Camacho
Somebody have a margarita for me tonight.
Stephanie
People aren't cooperating with me today. They've decided to quit breathing and therefore hindering my podcast listening. I finally got to the part when ralph- woots. I nearly fell off my chair.
Dre's theorizing; almost as entertaining as dharmalars.
RE: Ben's theory about Coop not being real - Ben, if your reading, do you mean you think it's the smoke monster or just a projection of the island, because I'm not sure, thinking back now that I'm sure that the Smoke Monster does that sort of thing. Does anyone remember why we thought it was the smoke monster appearing as Yemi is Cost of Living?
I know this is kind of nitpicking since, at some level, I'm not sure it matters whether its smokey or something else, except that I think the fact that the island seems to be able to manifest things in your mind, must have something to do with the 'magic box' and what it is. After Ben Linus' description of what the box can do, and my longtime thought (in agreement with Dharmalar Ben) that the island is like a mirror, I'm begining to think that smokey is mainly a security system as Rousseau said. I think the island itself (and perhaps Jacob) is causing the manifestations.
forgot my new sig:
Otto Olivo Olivares (call me triple O - TWSS)
Steph - sorry it's busy for you today!
MB, I think the reason we think Smokey was Yemi was that after Eko refused to confess to his vision of Yemi Smokey turned into a big fist and slammed him into the tree. The OLP also suggested that Yemi was Smokey, but you never know with DL and CC.
I haven't rewatched that episode. It was my least favorite of pod #1 because everything that happened in it from Eko's death to the tumor being Ben's was so predictable.
Talk some more about your mirror idea. The finale is entitled Through the Looking Glass. That J. Wood guy who wrote a LOST book and who blogs LOST at Powells.com talks about mirroring all the time.
Holli
I MEANT to say in my previous post "Thinking back now, I'm NOT sure that the Smoke Monster does that sort of thing" (i.e. take different forms)
Morgan came up with the smoke monster being a shape-shifter theory after seeing the horse in What Kate Did.
oh fuck yes. the kablamo song! love that stuff. too bad "Awesome Town" never took off.
if you like that, i recommend Just 2 Guyz
Holli -
I wish the idea was better flushed out in my mind, since I've thought the island was some kind of mirror since the pilot. But it has always made sense that at some level that the special thing about this island was that it gave you instant Karma, and showed you that you reap what you sow. All of the subsequent manifestations and the idea of the 'magic box' reinforced it for me.
Indeed, I think whether the island or Jacob turns out to be directly responsible for the manifestations, if it is true that there is a 'magic box' which can manifest what ever you want - then it follows that you'd better be careful of what you wish for. And as batshit as Ben and the Others seem to be with their maddeningly annoying way of seeming to be judgmental to the point of cruelty, I'm guessing that this attitude comes from a realization that, if you don't want the island to truly descend into something resembling Hell, EVERYONE on that island had better deal with their inner crap, lest it possibly be manifested and become more than just a 'personal issue'. Now obviously not EVERYTHING in everyone's minds gets manifested - it will be interesting to see why that is, and if it is somehow controlled, or if the island simply has some selection criteria/process.
I'm starting to fry my brain (and I have work to do) - I'll think more later, I don't know if that all makes sense now.
Also - love that you go to Powels.com. The store is here in Portland (actually there are multiple stores), and it's a pretty mindblowing place for books. GREAT bookstore. AND the owner's wife was a grade-school teacher in my grade school back in Chicago. More info than you needed - LOL
Holli, have you read theories involving the 2004 tsunami. Sounds like it could happen after hearing Naomi's testimony.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake
MB, The Powells blog is pretty amazing and if I read slowly enough and enough times I start to understand what that J. Wood guy is talking about. He gets into some pretty obscure stuff like the 3 Anthony Coopers who were Earls of Shaftsbury and were connected with John Locke. I really wonder if the LOST writers can know all this shit. If so, why are they working in TV instead of government? Wait, that proves how smart they are.
I'm supposed to be doing yard work and have been off and on all day. I hate yard work!
Holli
Steph, as for the tsunami, I've heard somewhere and I don't know if it's accurate or not that TPTB intend to ignore the tsunami. If the Island is in the Pacific as I think the tsunami shouldn't affect it drastically. It was the Indian Ocean places that got clobbered.
Maybe that's why they've faked the crash off Bali (Indiana Ocean or at least adjacent) hoping that once the tsunami hits people will think the plane is even more unrecoverable, or just not important.
Holli
someone KABLAMMO 42....
Before he breaks the record, I want to go on the record as saying I despise Barry Bonds almost as much as Juliet. Of course, I'm a Braves fan as much as a baseball fan, so take it for what you will. Here's hoping Bonds won't go Kablamo.
Holli
you're just too deft at the Kablammo-ing Holli - you work it into your post, unlike some oaf like me who just says it outright. I bow to your skills.
finally finished the Dharmalars. Just about did a spit-take wih my coffee when Dre couldn't shut his phone off. love that guy - he needs to call TLI as well.
oops - forgot - EXCELLENT show B&R&J!!
Dre needs his own show.
You know who needs his own show? That guy on TLI who does the spoilers and talks to his mac.
I agree - that guy is really good at what he does. and he's very punctual.
The reckage of the flight was found off the coast of Bali but Naomi was looking for Des in the Pacific Ocean? Ok, I got confused.
How would they explain the crash in the Indian Ocean?
http://www.theodora.com/maps/new8/oceans.gif
My computer's at home and I'm not. I doubt I'll sleep tonight.
Stephanie
Yes that Mac is a wonderful machine... and his pet seems pretty smart too
After running away from AI this season by moving to 10pm and finding millions of lost viewers, why would the network move the show back to 9? Seems like it's doing just fine where it is now.
LOL... the human is a pet!!!
nice one!
yes, the show should stay at 10pm... that allows the writers to be a little darker than seasons 1 or 2
Eactly!
Just checking in here -
LMAO - IS THAT KIM posting as Marcus Brigstock (w/the 'punctual' comment)?
I ask b/c I'm still working on the spoiler seg (obviously not at this very moment) - LOL
happy mexican drunk day everybody!
and i too like that guy with his mac. he's the shia lebouf of tli.
huh? you mean he's disturbed?
No, I think he meant that he's the next big thing.
cinco de mayo = burritos for breakfast
excellent podcast, guys. ralph, sorry that things have been so hectic for you. and i ask again, didn't the Cyclops in Krull get lost in some quicksand and then just show up again later in the movie? did they explain it or am i misremembering a movie that i haven't seen in 14 years?
I can't wait for TLI - get with the spoilers MB.
How many times and about who will Aimee say "batshit crazy" this week?
I'm so fucking impatient waiting for TLI it's not healthy.
whoever does the spoilers (and is hilarious with his Mac) needs to take his time to get the segment done right.
in that light, you have five minutes to finish up.
LOST ENDS in 2009?
A day late to the party, Ralph, but yeah -- that's the word currently going round =). E Online expects an announcement "in the next few days" but the most likely announcement for the end date as well as Season 4's premiere date and timeslot will be at ABC's "upfront" presentation May 15.
-J
Ralph, Ben...Awesome as usual, better late than never. Ben, thanks for the shout-out. Ralph, I wish we had NetFlix in Canada! I also saw Jesus Camp last week, and....woah, chill out!!! It kinda scared me.
MB = ?? Whom ever you choose to be today, no, that was not me who posted earlier.
Holli, your first post on this thread, I mostly agree with.
Elias, lol...you can't wait for your TLI fix??? Hahahah, Aimee and I recorded this afternoon--some techical difficulties, but we pulled through.
talk to y'all later
Kimberley
I finally saw Grindhouse tonight at the big screen theater in town.
Two words.
Bad.
Ass.
are you using those two words as a compliment as in Bad-Ass? or are you using two words to describe that it was horrible?
Kim, Canada has Zip.ca... similar to netflix. Used to use it but now have no time to watch movies, and the dvds would just sit there.
but pretty good
Hey fellas, another great podcast and I just wanted to say that Ben, you just blew my mind. I never even considered that AC was smokey but now that you mention it, it make alot of sense. I just have a couple of questions about how that may have been similar to Eko's brotha. When smokey was Yemme, was that just an illusion or was he an actual object you could touch because if he was just an illusion then Smokey couldn't have been AC but then again I'm always full of shit.
Howay the Lads!
L8r
Howay? you a Magpie?
http://www.adultswim.com/shows/robotchicken/stuff/rcsw/
Set your DVRs accordingly.
Ralph, I was saying that it was totally bad ass. hahaha. The periods were meant for dramtic effect. No man, that was probably one of the more enjoyable nights at the theater I can ever remember.
:) Kirlain, I know about Zip.Ca. I was refering to NetFlix friend stuff, etc...
I bored, and been procrastinating (from editing TLI) by watching Season 1 of House, M.D. Didn't think I would enjoy it, but it's not bad
just a wannabe Geordie
Kim, Turn that DVD player off and get to work. We need our TLI!
JK, do what you want chica.
Holli
-i love the Netflix.
if i had to come up with any criticisms: they don't have "Conan The Barbarian" for some unknown reason, and sometimes the get a little cute with processing time (but it's been better since they got sued over it).
-having Lost every week has been amazing. Next year's straight shot is going to be insane. I'm starting to get overwhelmed trying to keep up with the podcasts so i'm thinking about just archiving them this month, so i'll have some fun Lost content for the hiatus (excepting The Dharmalars, Lost Initiative and Official Podcast which i will devour as soon as they're available)
-This week's episode is going to be so awesome!!!
-Cindy.
andrew.
obsidian - turn your back on the dark side and be a mackem :)
Dudes, what's up? I still think it would be interesting if Cooper wasn't Cooper, but I'm not convinced he's the smoke munster. I think the only reasons we think Yemmi and the Horse were the smoke munster were a) Yemmi and the munster were in the same area at the same time and b) The OLP mentioned that we had already seen the munster after Kate's horse had shown up. I think it's something else, but I'm not clear on what I think it actually is.
I like the idea of a schism in the Others, and I think there's possibly something like that going on, but Ben Linus has been built up so well in this Machiavellian light that I start to think nobody could get the best of him for long, and I convince myself that whatever mutinous murmurings may be occurring, he's probably way ahead of them.
Think about this. If Dharma and the Hostiles had this big civil war, and Ben has lived his entire life on the island, which side were his parents on? One Dharma, one Hostile in a Romeo + Juliet style tragic island tale? Both Dharma and he had to rebel against them with his Hostile army? It's something I just started to think about, and I think it has potential for some good stories.
Oh Ben, you're so romantic.
Not that I'd want to begrudge you guys enjoying new TLI, but I'm just glad to know I'm not missing out on what the cool kids are doing since I'm at work and my new fancy computer at homes not connected to the internet. I believe I can remedy the problem with just the switching of one cable.
Andrew, Conan is on AMC every couple of weeks, but it would be nice to be able to see it on demand. Dang it! I forgot to DVR Enter the Dragon.
Ben - I'm very much buying into Alpert and his revolution. If it's just Ben playing Locke I'll be a bit disappointed.
As for the various Ben theories - thankfully I'm spoiler-free so I don't know what to expect. There are a number of ways they can play it and it will be more complex if both his parents were Dharma. For some reason I prefer to think there were people, however few, on the island for centuries, or at least there once were people on the island in ancient times.
went down the shops and lost £15 somewhere and I'm pissed - realised it's one of the numbers but that doesn't make me feel better.
Interesting things from the net:
Google is sexist. Try googling she invented. You get Did you mean: "he invented"
Go ahead, try it and see.
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/05/atandt-blocking-out-june-15-july-15-for-iphone-launch/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11786-green-tea-can-be-harmful-in-large-quantities.html
I'm pretty sure the Smoke Munster is Sandman.
Have we ever seen Billy Dee Williams and the Smoke Munster in the same place at the same time???
andrew.
How the Others really test for Pregnancy...
http://www.thepregnancytester.com/
Whew! Negative, thank goodness.
luckily, i'm not pregnant either. but just in case maybe i should rent "Junior" with Schwarzenegger and DeVito. heck, i should watch their other movie because i could be pregnant with Twins!
/"My name is Joohlius. And I am ya twin brudda."
no bundle of joy, just pizza.
i need to go ask Dr. Jack just how accurate these tests are.
andrew.
This news just in.
* “Lost” will run three more seasons after the one that concludes this month.
* Each of the final three seasons will only contain 16 episodes, instead of the 23 or 24 produced for the first three seasons.
* The 16-episode seasons will run without repeats.
See the full Variety story:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964371.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&p=0
A decent compromise between ABC's 7 full seasons and the producers' planned two, I guess. They have the same amount of episodes left (all the complelling story/mythology they have left, according to them), but ABC has asked them to scrape it out over 3 seasons instead of 2 full-sized ones. They did mention it would focus their storytelling, though, and that's always a good thing -- If this means every episode from Seasons 4 to 6 are on the same level as "The Man From Tallahassee", "One Of Us", or "The Brig" from this season then I have zero problems.
Great, gutsy move by ABC to even announce an end date and a commitment to meet it at all!
-J
J, I hope there's the occasional Tricia Tanaka in there as well. 48 straight Brigs would make my head hurt.
I saw a car with a hula girl on the dashboard at the grocery store yesterday. I considered a break-in, but rejected it.
Would the hula doll mean that Penny's ship had put in at Hawaii on their way to the middle of the ocean and the crew made an obligatory trip to Hilo Hattie's? Was Naomi sporting a mu-mu under that flight suit?
Holli
Anyone know more about the rumours that Jack will be leaving Lost this season? isn't he contracted until season 5?
Hellooo. Where is everyone?
So, i fianlly got to watch 1 Year in the Making with my new, fancy-ass computer. Ben, were you doing your best Michael Scott impression, or what? I couldn't tell if you were doing Michael or Jim.
I think Jimmy just wanted an excuse to show us his pecs. Not bad for an old man.:)
From what I understand, they are all contracted for 5 years but that doesn't mean they can't decide to leave or be killed off. I doubt Foxy's leaving but I keep thinking Evi will if Charlie dies. I doubt she would stay and let her new hubby leave the island. And too, she's so miserable being a celebrity and all.
holli, i think the fellows would like to see the occasional Tricia Tanaka as well. oh. you meant the episode? oops.
steph, enjoying the new computadora?
palmer, to quote Carlton, it's Fantastic! I can do so much more than before. The only problem is, I've lost all my iTunes music. I thought I backed them up. I transferred to iTunes but when I go to play the song, it's not there. Well, I didn't lose them. I'll probably give my old computer to my in-laws, and I can try to get the music again.
Can you re-download downloaded music from iTunes? I always just rip the physical CD to my iTunes collection and avoid the AppleStore.
are we getting excited for the next episode of LOST yet? i know i am. *sort of spoilery* maybe we'll need a Dirty Hippy name generator on Wednesday? *end sort of spoilers*
new Heroes tonight. good stuff.
You buy actual CDs, palmer? Everytime I go into Best Buy, I think, "Who are these people that still buy these fragile things?"
Yay, May Sweeps!!! Good tv for a couple of weeks.
i order CDs from Amazon, stores are for chumps!
actually, most of the CDs that i've ordered recently have been movie scores. don't worry though. i'm not cerebral or anything. we're talking John Williams and Howard Shore. of course, when my girlfriend orders CDs, i'll listen to those too. :)
So, no episodes for 8 months, then a new 16-episode season starting next spring? And then repeated that way for 2 more years? That kind of sounds like Sopranos-style seasons. I hope that the show doesn't lose momentum between all of these mini-seasons.
ick! I don't think I like the 3 16-episode seasons. Do they honestly expect viewership to remain strong? I know there are die-hard fans like us that will watch it, but they barely made it out of the 13-week hiatus for viewers that "just watch" the show. I would rather they end it in 2 full-length seasons instead.
Another thing, shorter seasons work well for shows like Survivor because they have two seasons per year. Now we'll be waiting 8 months for a shortened season each year.
I think (as much as I disliked it) they should do what they did this season again; a 6-episode mini-season then the rest in February.
I like this better than the 6-episode thing. But an 8-month break after this year, after next season, and after the following season ... that's gonna be tough. But I like the fact that they can focus on how they want to finish up the story, rather than on how they can stretch it out over who knows how many more years.
All good things come to and end, eventually, right? I'm glad they've made a decision about the fate of LOST, but I hope that it doesn't lose viewership because of it.
According to the online doctors, I'm preggers. It's a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes. Sorry Aimee, I couldn't resist Sawyer after all.
Kimberley, I offer you my condolences.
I like the fact that the show will end on the storyteller's terms. If the ending sucks, it would ruin the entire series.
Are Lindeluse serious when they talk about a show in development? I can never tell with them.
106...
107... quick, someone get on that!
KABLAMO!
??
Tall guy - thanks for posting that info about the series end.
I must appologize - I mentioned this in the spoiler seg, but I had read (incorrectly apparently) that they were only going to do 2 more seasons (same number of episodes).
(sigh) I just hope those guys really do have something else in the works, and that its really...really good.
RAZZLE DAZZLE boss - nice
So 6 seasons, eh? Damn, just 1 short of the zombie season. lol.
As for the news, I'm still trying to figure out what I think of it. I was expecting them to say 2 more seasons at the current episode amount, so I guess 3 at 16 is more. Seeing as how they are planning on doing the 16 straight weeks deal, that means 3 months on, 9 months off. I think it's pretty clear that they are now just doing it for the die hard fans and not much for trying to be a huge rating grabber. Which is probably a smart thing to do, as the general public seems to have lost interest.
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